In this episode, I am joined by my two friends, Shannon, and Mia. We focus on certain words that may seem innocent but may actually be negative. Since we’re women, we focused more on terms that are related to women and how certain words make us feel. Then Mia entertains us with information she has on the meanings behind our first names. Links to the books she mentioned are below.
Mia’s Insta Page: https://www.instagram.com/artofmiarussell/
Some parts of the transcript may be edited for better readability, but the content remains the same. Mostly removed duplicate words, vocal filler words, and added/removed some words for clarification.
Hey, everyone! This is Meliza. And I'm The Talkative Introvert. Welcome back to the podcast. I got another episode with Mia and Shannon for you today. I'm going to keep this interest short so we can get straight to it. Alright, hope you enjoy the episode. I'm gonna call this episode. 'Don't call me that was Shannon and Mia' (Laughter)
Shannon 0:31
I love it. Oh my God. 'Don't call me that.'
Meliza Manalo 0:32
I thought about it. I was like that's a good one. That's a good one, Meliza. (Laughter)
Mia Russell 0:41
Go ahead. (Laughter)
Meliza Manalo 0:47
All right, you guys ready?
Mia Russell 0:49
Yeah.
Shannon 0:49
Yeah.
Meliza Manalo 0:51
All right. Joining me today, again, is Shannon and Mia. Thanks for joining me again for the episode, another podcast episode.
Shannon 1:03
Yeah. Thank you. Thanks for having us.
Meliza Manalo 1:05
How's it going?
Mia Russell 1:05
It's going good. Yeah. Thanks for having us.
Meliza Manalo 1:07
Yeah. No problem. Thanks for actually going on.
Mia Russell 1:11
Yeah, even though some of us are, you know, timetably challenged. (Laughter)
Shannon 1:18
We won't say names.
Mia Russell 1:19
Yeah, we won't. We won't.
Shannon 1:23
We're all here and we're ready to discuss.
Meliza Manalo 1:27
Yeah. I'm so excited. This is season two.
Everybody 1:31
Wohoo!
Meliza Manalo 1:33
So, if you're new to the show, I've had Mia and Shannon on before. So, go check out those episodes in season one. But yeah, okay. So today, we're going to talk about characteristics in terms of endearment. And basically, just adjectives and terms that may seem nice, but may not be actually nice. And so, we're going to talk about mainly feminine characteristics, just because we're women. So, we don't really... can't really speak on behalf of men obviously. And things that, you know, relate to them. These are female characters. Did you want to share your little story? Because this kind of came about because of Shannon.
Shannon 2:20
Yeah, I can give a little background of how we kind of stumbled upon this and hopefully doing it.
Mia Russell 2:29
Oh, okay.
Shannon 2:29
Okay. So, it started... my friend, we're just talking one day, and she asked me like, "Shannon, would you describe me as bubbly?" And, you know, I was like, "No. No, I wouldn't." And, and she was just telling me like, she has a co-worker, you know, who did and then, you know, she was saying, like, "I wouldn't think of myself as bubbly, either." And we just got on this big conversation of what do we even think bubbly means, right? And why are we so sure she's not bubbly, but her other friends like, was like," Oh, yeah, you're bubbly." And your other friend, you know, not seen as a "Oh, you're bubbly, but as a compliment." And so we just got in this big discussion of why do we like... because we had with a negative connotation is what we were kind of when we were discussing, it came down to like, oh, bubbly. Bubbly? Maybe no, we see it as not so good, right? But the girl had a different perspective on it. And we're like, okay, so why do we even think what we think about the word bubbly? And what is bubbly? So we wanted to start there, or another word, but like, kind of just break down. Like, what do we even think bubbly means?
Meliza Manalo 3:49
That's kind of difficult. Because like...
Mia Russell 3:53
It's kind of like when you start saying a word over and over again, it loses its meaning.
Meliza Manalo 3:57
Yeah.
Shannon 3:59
Bubbly bubbly bubbly.
Meliza Manalo 4:01
Because I can see the both negative and positives of bubbly, right? So bubbly, sometimes it's a good thing because it's like, you know, you're... what's the word? Like for customer service? Like you kind of want to be bubbly, and inviting and all that stuff and bubbly is good. It's cheerful or like, if you're... what are they called? Those camp leaders or those camp people?
Mia Russell 4:28
Camp counselor?
Meliza Manalo 4:29
Yeah, Camp counselor. You want to be bubbly. But then I can see bubbly being kind of associated with dumb people. (Laughter)
Shannon 4:44
Yeah, well, I think that's when my friend and I were talking where we kind of, at one point ended up on a conversation of the negative side of... like, we were associating it with kind of that the ditzy, right? The dumb blonde, you know?
Meliza Manalo 4:58
Yeah. There you go. Ditzy.
Shannon 4:58
And we're like, okay, but why? So why? And then we got into the, you know, real deep of like, okay, why do we even think that right? Like, why are we associating it with a negative? Is it negative? And we're like, the patriarchy is kind of heartened up to be frank. But you know, because it was just interesting. Like we associated it when we really started talking about it more. But then we think of it as ditzy. And that's, you know, a negative, right?
Meliza Manalo 5:28
Yeah.
Shannon 5:29
Why is it even a negative? Like bubbly in and of itself? Like, that's not a mean thing to say about someone, right? So it's like, we're getting these other perceptions.
Mia Russell 5:43
I think bubbly, especially in the context of a workplace is something that's sought after. So, I wouldn't see it right off the bat as like a bad thing. But like I said, you start saying word out long enough, it loses meaning. It's like, what does it really mean? You know?
Meliza Manalo 6:06
Yeah, I think bubbly is probably safe to go. But then it kind of leads to the ditzy. The ditzy one when you said that she knows like, oh, that's more like, the negative one. Like you don't want to be ditzy. And those are kind of associated with bubbly people. And then bubbly is usually used for women. You don't usually say a bubbly guy or that guy is super bubbly.
Mia Russell 6:31
Yeah.
Shannon 6:31
I don't know what that would look like. Like what? You never described the guys bubbly? That is something that is reserved for women. So it's like when you're talking about, you know, looking for these traits in the workplace, it's like, for maybe female oriented. I don't know like camp counselor, right? And I mean, I know there are men who do that. But like the comforting, bubbly female counselor. I don't know. I don't know.
Meliza Manalo 7:02
If you're a bubbly guy, you're probably like... I don't know if this is correct, maybe like a flamboyant guy. You know what I mean?
Mia Russell 7:10
Yeah.
Meliza Manalo 7:11
Maybe. I don't know. I just don't know what a bubbly guy would be. I feel like flamboyant would be the closest thing or maybe... (sighs) I don't know.
Shannon 7:24
But it gets something that all that like how language is gendered and why is bubbly used to describe women.
Meliza Manalo 7:36
Yeah. And why bubbly?
Shannon 7:38
Yeah. Women most of the time like you said.
Mia Russell 7:43
And if it's a good thing, if it's a positive thing why aren't men, you know, described as it?
Shannon 7:49
Mm hmm.
Meliza Manalo 7:49
Yeah. Good point. Well, that's a good first word.
Shannon 7:55
Oh, I think that does go back to women as kind of like caretakers. Bubbly as a, you know, nice whatever. And like someone you can go to, right? Because they are nice to be with or whatever.
Meliza Manalo 8:07
Yeah. Approachable.
Shannon 8:07
And I think that goes back to women being seen in caretaker roles, right? And that's why we don't see it as a masculine trait.
Meliza Manalo 8:20
Yeah.
Shannon 8:21
More of the time.
Meliza Manalo 8:22
Okay, I'm gonna take a break right here. Do you hear it, Shannon? Or is it just me?
Shannon 8:28
I can hear it, too.
Meliza Manalo 8:29
Okay. It's like super loud. What is that?
Shannon 8:34
But it just sounds like feedback. Like it's just some sort of...
Meliza Manalo 8:39
Unplug and plug in your headphones again.
Mia Russell 8:41
All right.
Meliza Manalo 8:43
Turn it on and turn if off again. (Laughter)
Mia Russell 8:47
Can you hear me?
Meliza Manalo 8:48
Yeah. (Feedback from mic) Oh, it's worse. What is that? I mean, it's only when you talk or when there's...
Mia Russell 8:56
Hello?
Meliza Manalo 8:57
This wasn't a problem before.
Mia Russell 9:00
Well, before I was at my apartment.
Meliza Manalo 9:03
Oh, are you in your new home? (Laughter)
Mia Russell 9:11
No, sort of I'm in my mom's house and in the main house.
Meliza Manalo 9:17
Is it the ghost?
Mia Russell 9:19
Yeah, I'm in the ghost room.
Shannon 9:21
Oh, no.
Meliza Manalo 9:22
You are?
Shannon 9:24
You're in the ghost room.
Mia Russell 9:25
I am.
Meliza Manalo 9:26
You're not shut up. Are you?
Mia Russell 9:28
I am.
Meliza Manalo 9:30
Wait. Can you test it if you go in a different room?
Shannon 9:33
Can you get out of the ghost room?
Mia Russell 9:35
Well, not really, because there's people in the other rooms so it's gonna be louder.
Meliza Manalo 9:40
Okay. That's a little scary. That freaks me out.
Shannon 9:45
Oh my God. There's white noise. Oh my god, they're trying to communicate. (Laughter)
Mia Russell 9:52
Guys, you're off your rocker. (Laughter)
Meliza Manalo 9:53
Oh geez. Okay, it's fine. I think I have enough of it that I can use it to...
Shannon 10:06
Yeah, you can isolate it.
Meliza Manalo 10:08
I can isolate and take it out. Okay. So...
Shannon 10:14
After that short break... (Laughter)
Meliza Manalo 10:15
Yeah. So, we use bubbly. Is there another word that you guys want to use? Or do you want to know my list?
Shannon 10:25
We can go with you list.
Mia Russell 10:26
Let's go with your list. Yeah.
Shannon 10:27
Cuz I didn't really think of much. I don't know, I googled before or like, it was probably a couple of weeks ago now. And I just found probably something similar to what you did just like some big list of the words. So that'd be a lot to kind of... but if you pick some out already, let's do that.
Meliza Manalo 10:46
Okay. So, one that I kept finding was princess.
Mia Russell 10:53
Ughhh God. (Laughter)
Shannon 10:59
Yeah, when you say that I'm like, oh, no. That's my gut reaction, too. Don't call me princess.
Mia Russell 11:07
It just takes me back to the happy bunny days.
Meliza Manalo 11:10
Happy bunny days?
Shannon 11:13
What does that mean?
Mia Russell 11:14
You know like, Avril Lavigne. You don't know what happy bunny is?
Shannon 11:18
No.
Meliza Manalo 11:19
Is it that weird, like morbid cartoon?
Mia Russell 11:22
Sort of. It's like the original meme, I guess.
Meliza Manalo 11:27
Yeah, they're like cute little bunnies, but they do horrific morbid stuff.
Mia Russell 11:35
No, that's different. This was... umm.
Shannon 11:40
Oh, well. Wait. The stickers and buttons?
Mia Russell 11:44
Yeah, stickers and buttons and say short phrases.
Shannon 11:46
Oh my God, I can't believe I forgot about these.
Mia Russell 11:48
And it's sarcastic as hell.
Shannon 11:51
Okay, I just remembered it. It's all about me. Deal with it.
Mia Russell 11:53
Yeah. It's like I'm the princess.
Shannon 11:56
Boys lying kind of stink. What? (Laughter)
Meliza Manalo 12:00
Yeah.
Shannon 12:00
I hate everything. Okay. I totally forgot about these, Mia.
Meliza Manalo 12:06
Yeah. I remember those.
Shannon 12:07
Now I'm gonna look at all of these.
Meliza Manalo 12:08
Oh geez, the original memes.
Mia Russell 12:11
Yeah, you know the means you used to have to buy from PacSun. (Laughter)
Meliza Manalo 12:15
Yeah.
Shannon 12:17
Awww. PacSun. (Laughter)
Meliza Manalo 12:21
I know they're not around anymore, huh?
Mia Russell 12:23
I don't think so.
Shannon 12:24
I don't think so.
Meliza Manalo 12:25
Yeah. I haven't seen one. That's funny. But anyways, princess. I honestly... no one in like our generation has probably ever called someone that. Like I have only heard that from older people.
Mia Russell 12:41
Yeah.
Shannon 12:42
I would agree with that. I don't know if I didn't know anyone who has actually, near my age, called me princess in earnestness, right?
Meliza Manalo 12:51
Yeah, like in a nice way.
Shannon 12:53
Yeah, genuinely was like, "Aww, princess."
Meliza Manalo 12:58
Yeah.
Mia Russell 13:00
Yeah. For real.
Meliza Manalo 13:02
I think at some point, it was positive. But then there is a turning point where it's like, no, no, girl. I mean, no... I won't say no girl wants to be called princesses because obviously a little girl still plays princess or whatever.
Mia Russell 13:16
Okay. And my mom likes being called a princess. I don't get it.
Meliza Manalo 13:20
Does she?
Mia Russell 13:21
Yeah, she does. She's like, "I'm the princess". And it's like, you're not the Queen?
Meliza Manalo 13:27
I know. I was like, you're the Queen.
Shannon 13:31
But also I feel like even when I'm... if I would be called Queen like it's in a joke-ish manner. Or like a...
Mia Russell 13:40
Well, what about 'Yas, Queen'?
Shannon 13:42
Yeah, right. Well, like... And okay, I think because we were talking about this a little bit before, but it depends on who is calling you this.
Mia Russell 13:50
Yeah, that's true.
Shannon 13:52
Like this is definitely... Cuz Yeah, okay. My mind's like, jumping around everywhere.
Meliza Manalo 13:59
I think queen is more...
Shannon 14:00
Cuz I think as little girl or just as a little kid like princesses like... because that's like, you know, that's fairy tale. That's dressing up. And I wonder maybe cuz your mom maybe there's some generational like... if you are a man, I do not want you calling me princess.
Mia Russell 14:16
I can't imagine them calling me princess in a tone that isn't snarling or something.
Meliza Manalo 14:24
Yeah.
Shannon 14:24
Horrible kind of like a sexual overtone, right? Like, that's how I'm... like why would you call me princess? In what capacity? You know, like, what is happening that I'm being called this?
Meliza Manalo 14:37
Yeah.
Shannon 14:38
That I don't know. I don't know.
Meliza Manalo 14:40
Yeah. Like if you're an older guy calling me a princess like, I get that, you know. That's just in their generation, that's like a term of endearment. But if a guy our age now calls me that, it's definitely an insult. Because princesses are associated like they don't do work. They don't do anything. They're dainty.
Shannon 15:02
Yeah.
Mia Russell 15:02
A typical princess.
Meliza Manalo 15:06
They're spoiled.
Shannon 15:07
Can't take care of themselves.
Meliza Manalo 15:09
Exactly.
Shannon 15:11
Connotation that we perceive.
Meliza Manalo 15:14
Yeah. Exactly.
Mia Russell 15:16
Yeah. It's like Meliza said, it's a generational thing because, you know, if an older person calls you princess or something like that, you kind of have to take it with a grain of salt. But if somebody our age does it, it's like, ughhh. Why are you calling you that? You know, they should know. Like, they should know better? Or be more familiar with how you feel about it.
Meliza Manalo 15:40
Yeah, exactly.
Shannon 15:42
And queen is interesting, too, because that's definitely different. And I think that is totally a generational... Well, I don't know when did... when did 'Yas Queen' start? You know, like, start being a thing.
Meliza Manalo 15:55
A thing?
Shannon 15:55
I feel like it was... I mean, I don't know the history. I don't.
Meliza Manalo 15:59
Really? Beyoncé?
Mia Russell 15:59
I don't think... That before... It probably was a big part of it.
Shannon 16:03
It came with her. But it probably was around before.
Mia Russell 16:07
It came into my knowledge within the past 10 years, I'd say.
Shannon 16:15
I would say we didn't we weren't saying 'Yas queen' in high school.
Mia Russell 16:19
No.
Meliza Manalo 16:19
No. Definitely not. I think it came before Beyoncé. But she made it even bigger.
Mia Russell 16:27
Popular like a household thing.
Meliza Manalo 16:30
Because everyone started calling her 'Queen bee' or 'bey'.
Shannon 16:32
And it's definitely...yeah, a girl power call. Right?
Meliza Manalo 16:38
Yeah, exactly.
Shannon 16:39
It's a strong princess, right?
Mia Russell 16:43
But it's also a part of the LGBTQ community, I'd say.
Shannon 16:48
Yeah, definitely.
Mia Russell 16:49
Because a lot of drag queens do identify, you know... Not identify as Queen but say "Yas Queen." in a good way.
Shannon 17:01
It's probably a lot longer or farther back than we probably know.
Mia Russell 17:05
Yeah, probably farther than where we are.
Meliza Manalo 17:06
Yeah.
Shannon 17:06
It's my best guess without really looking at more. But yeah, I think that's a good point. But...
Meliza Manalo 17:12
Yeah, that's a good point, Mia. Yeah, it probably did start in the LGBTQ community. But then Beyoncé made it mainstream or something. I don't know.
Mia Russell 17:22
Which is a total example of taking something that started in a grassroots type situation and just totally gets blown out of proportion by capitalism and other people who don't understand. Like, where it really came from, like, we don't even understand where it came from. We just know it.
Meliza Manalo 17:40
Yeah.
Shannon 17:41
Yeah. So if you're out there, and you're listening, and you know...
Mia Russell 17:47
Yeah. Leave a comment.
Shannon 17:48
Please let us know. Because...
Meliza Manalo 17:50
...we know nothing.
Shannon 17:52
We're, you know, we can make these assumptions like...
Meliza Manalo 17:54
We're not experts.
Shannon 17:54
Like, we know white women didn't come up with it. (Laughter)
Mia Russell 18:02
Do we come up with anything?
Shannon 18:04
Nope. No, we did not.
Mia Russell 18:06
Oh, man.
Meliza Manalo 18:08
Yeah. You came up with Betty Crocker.
Mia Russell 18:11
Betty Crocker? She probably stole hers from somebody for recipes.
Meliza Manalo 18:17
Well, isn't it this lady who... Oh, man I used to know the history of it. I think it was a lady, I think. Or it's a guy but using you know, anyways... But it was like someone who wanted to make baking easy. And, you know...
Mia Russell 18:33
Oh, and did you know, side fact that the original cake mixes you only had to add water. But that felt like it was too easy and not involved enough for people to feel like they were actually making it themselves. So, they had to... they took out ingredients so that you had to add eggs and butter and stuff like that.
Meliza Manalo 18:52
That's so stupid.
Shannon 18:54
One ingredient is not enough. But let's give them three that they have to add. And then they'll feel like they're doing something.
Meliza Manalo 18:59
Yeah.
Mia Russell 19:00
You know, crack an egg in there and you'll feel better.
Meliza Manalo 19:03
They should go back to the original recipe because sometimes I don't have eggs. Sometimes I don't have oil. So... I always have water.
Mia Russell 19:12
You can use vegan alternatives. But they're generally a little different.
Meliza Manalo 19:21
I'm not a vegan. So...
Mia Russell 19:24
Neither am I but I've had some vegan food that's pretty bomb.
Meliza Manalo 19:29
Oh, I'm sure. (Laughter) Anyways.
Mia Russell 19:33
Yeah, sorry.
Shannon 19:33
Our first tangent. Our first, little side note.
Meliza Manalo 19:38
Barely into the episode. We're already gone on different tangents. Okay. Did you have another word but any of you guys or girls?
Mia Russell 19:46
No.
Meliza Manalo 19:46
Ladies, whatever. We're from California. Everyone's a guy.
Mia Russell 19:50
Everyone's a dude.
Meliza Manalo 19:51
Yeah.
Mia Russell 19:52
He's a dude. She's a dude. We're all dudes. (Laughter)
Meliza Manalo 19:59
Is that Kel?
Mia Russell 20:01
Yes it is. (Laughter)
Meliza Manalo 20:02
Yeah, I get it. Okay. I know that reference. In case you guys didn't get that, that was from Kel from 'Kenan & Kel'. Or 'All That'? They're from 'All That', right? They started from 'All That', right?
Mia Russell 20:15
Yeah. The good burger sketch.
Meliza Manalo 20:17
Oh, yeah. Welcome to the good burger. Home of the good burger. Can I take your order? (Laughter) I don't know why I remember that. Anyways, new word.
Shannon 20:30
New word, new word. Someone help. What's the next word you have?
Meliza Manalo 20:36
Okay. Um, the next one I got was tomboy.
Shannon 20:42
Hmm, that's interesting.
Meliza Manalo 20:44
Yeah. When I was younger, I would be considered like a tomboy. Kind of.
Mia Russell 20:49
Yeah.
Meliza Manalo 20:49
I didn't like Barbies. And I didn't wear dresses, and I hated the color pink. Even though now, I love pink. I have pink everything.
Mia Russell 20:57
Yeah. When I was a kid, I wanted to be a girly girl. But I had a brother. So, I always like looked up to him and wanted to do what he was doing and want to play with the toys he was playing with. So, I was borderline tomboy. Except for I sucked at sports. So, I didn't do that. (Laughter) But I feel like it's also coded language. You know, it's like, "Oh, she's a tomboy", you know, in societies that aren't as accepting of LGBTQ.
Meliza Manalo 21:29
Mm hmm. Or like masculine women.
Mia Russell 21:33
Yeah, like, "Oh, she's a tomboy" or, you know, something like that.
Meliza Manalo 21:36
Yeah.
Shannon 21:37
Let's see, tomboy is interesting. Because when I think about tomboy, I do, like first thought is back to like elementary school. And for me though, Mia, it was like, you wanted to be a tomboy.
Meliza Manalo 21:48
Yeah.
Mia Russell 21:49
Really?
Shannon 21:49
You wanted to be like... yeah. One of the boys, right? And I think... well, right. I say that because you had a different experience. (Laughter) But I feel like, for me, looking at it. It's like, you wanted to be a tomboy, because you wanted to be part of the boys. Because the boys were cool.
Meliza Manalo 22:07
Yeah.
Mia Russell 22:08
Yeah.
Shannon 22:09
And so you wanted to fit in, right?
Mia Russell 22:11
You want to infiltrate that community.
Shannon 22:13
I want to be one of the guys. And so I think... do you think? Yeah, what you're saying too. Like getting older and stuff. It's like, it kind of flips off like, no, you women should be feminine. And you don't want to be a tomboy or whatever.
Mia Russell 22:29
Yeah.
Meliza Manalo 22:30
Yeah.
Shannon 22:31
But it's like, uhuh? Tomboy is an interesting one.
Meliza Manalo 22:35
Yeah. That one again, I feel like it's another generational thing. Like, obviously, there's, like... what's that called? Like, there's expectations for women to men, and they're different. And when you're called a tomboy, and maybe by an older person, or someone who's kind of old school, and more conservative, it's not good thing. But then, yeah, to Shannon's point, I liked being called a tomboy. I thought it was cool to be a tomboy, but at the same time, that can be kind of negative, you know, because it's like, well, why is it cool to be a tomboy? Like, why is it cool to be masculine? Or to be like one of the guys? What's wrong with being just another girl? Like being a "typical girl" quote, you know, air quotes.
Shannon 23:24
Yeah.
Mia Russell 23:24
I think when you're younger, it's harder to embrace your feminism because you're working against a world of patriarchy. That's creating this world around you that you don't necessarily want and don't understand. And so, you kind of fight back against it. Like, I didn't like pink. I didn't like the color purple, like, you know? And now it's like, I try. I do try to embrace that side of me because it's like, I do like pink. I do like purple. I do like, I don't know, dressing up or wearing jewelry and stuff like that.
Meliza Manalo 23:57
Yeah, I think we should just change the word. I don't like the word tomboy. Like, I think it's... I don't know, it's just kind of...
Mia Russell 24:06
It's also like a double negative, like tomboy.
Meliza Manalo 24:09
Yeah. And it's kind of degrading to the typical little girl. You know, it's kind of showing like, because you like all the girly stuff here, let's prissy, dainty little princess, you know? If that makes sense.
Shannon 24:28
All these words we've just talked about?
Mia Russell 24:30
Yeah. Exactly.
Shannon 24:35
But yeah, like you were saying. And I think there's a... I think a lot of this is to Elementary. So when we're forming, right? And we're, like, "told" quote, quote through media, through you know, life or whatever. That boys are strong. That boys are cool. And you want boys to like you so you should be like boys.
Mia Russell 24:59
And then it turns out to be the exact opposite. Which is exactly how the world works.
Meliza Manalo 25:09
Everything as a child is a lie. Just kidding, kind of. Anyways, next word. (Laughter)
Mia Russell 25:22
Alright. Next word.
Meliza Manalo 25:24
I don't really... I guess it's because I don't really understand the history of it. But do you guys know what the history of Spinster is like?
Mia Russell 25:33
Yes.
Meliza Manalo 25:35
Is that good?
Shannon 25:36
Spinster, all I know is that's like the old woman who never married and who likes to live alone is the image that comes in my mind.
Mia Russell 25:44
The thing is, the spinster was only a woman of 24 back in the day.
Meliza Manalo 25:53
Ohh.
Shannon 25:54
Yeah, like, they were like an old maid. Yeah. If you weren't married by your early 20s, you were then old.
Mia Russell 26:02
Yeah, and a spinster specifically, is a derogatory term. Because a spinster is somebody who would card or make wool or thread.
Meliza Manalo 26:15
It's just like spinning?
Mia Russell 26:17
Yeah, they're like spinning wool. So, they're spinster. So they're saying like, "Oh, if you don't get married, you're just gonna be a low income earning woman", you know, spinster doing this menial labor for the rest of your life.
Meliza Manalo 26:33
That's kind of mean to blue collar workers.
Mia Russell 26:36
Yeah. I mean, blue collar work is really hard. Trust me. I've been there. I know the manual labor and everything. That's no such thing as unskilled labor.
Meliza Manalo 26:49
Mm hmm. Definitely. I hear it every day from Brandon. But yeah. So okay. So, Spinster is just someone who just didn't get married.
Shannon 27:01
Essentially, right? And, like, you weren't...
Mia Russell 27:05
Or is alone.
Shannon 27:05
... or kind of like, "good" enough to get a husband, right?
Meliza Manalo 27:10
Oh, okay.
Shannon 27:11
Like you need to take care of you. So, now you're alone and you have to spin wool.
Meliza Manalo 27:17
Okay. Take care of yourself, basically.
Mia Russell 27:20
Yeah.
Meliza Manalo 27:21
Okay.
Mia Russell 27:22
I mean nowadays, it wouldn't be a bad thing, I mean taking care of yourself is a prerequisite to be an adult, right? So
Meliza Manalo 27:29
...Yeah.
Shannon 27:29
And I don't know about, like, how used spinster is.
Meliza Manalo 27:34
Mm hmm. Yeah, I was gonna ask that like, do people even use that word anymore?
Mia Russell 27:39
I would use the word spinster to, like, maybe 70 years of age and above if they never got married, as opposed to early 20s.
Meliza Manalo 27:51
Yeah, I wouldn't flat out call, be like, yeah, that chick's a Spinster or I wouldn't call an old person a chick. But that lady is a spinster. That's a weird...
Mia Russell 28:02
Yeah, it wouldn't be the first word I used.
Shannon 28:06
Well, I do think like, how you're saying that Mia, is like now it has the connotation of an actual older person.
Mia Russell 28:14
Yes. Like somebody who is actually old.
Shannon 28:16
Yeah. Like gray haired and older.
Meliza Manalo 28:22
Yeah. That's exactly what I was thinking.
Shannon 28:24
Comparatively to 20s. And you know, everything. But yeah, I don't think it's, I don't know. I've never really, I mean, I haven't used it. I don't hear it a lot. So, I don't know how...
Mia Russell 28:34
I think our common day spinster is cat lady?
Meliza Manalo 28:38
Oh yeah.
Shannon 28:38
Oh, when you said spinster I wanted to say that too. Because I hate the crazy cat lady trope. I despise.
Mia Russell 28:48
I mean, I've embraced it at this point. (Laughter)
Shannon 28:49
I mean, like a couple of people be like, "Hell yeah. My cat lady." But where it comes from is definitely like. it's a put down. Yeah. Because it's like the same as spinster. It's like, you're crazy cat lady. You couldn't find a man. So you have a bunch of cats.
Mia Russell 29:10
And I mean, it's right in the saying. Crazy, you know? They're calling you crazy. Like unfit for...
Shannon 29:14
But crazy on its own is another word we could just talk about too, right? Because women being called crazy. Or people being called crazy.
Mia Russell 29:23
Or gaslighting women into thinking they're crazy. That's a whole another subject.
Meliza Manalo 29:29
Yeah, that can be its own episode.
Mia Russell 29:32
Yeah. (Laughter)
Meliza Manalo 29:35
Ughh, don't know about that one. (Laughter) Okay, so spinster's outdated but it's the crazy cat lady.
Shannon 29:43
Yeah, yeah, cat. That's good call Mia, that's probably like the current year's because I definitely feel like people would still use that term. Crazy cat lady.
Mia Russell 29:53
Yeah.
Shannon 29:54
And I don't appreciate it being a cat lady myself or using it in when people use it to be rude to me. Like me discovering myself like hell yeah, I'm a cat lady. But you can tell when people are being like, "Oh, you're a cat lady."
Mia Russell 30:09
Yeah.
Shannon 30:12
Haha! You guys err... I love my cats! Leave me alone! (Laughter)
Meliza Manalo 30:22
Next word. So, this one. I've gotten this one in it. This one's another situational one. But 'Little lady'. I mean being a lady and I am little. But being called... I don't wanna be called a little day.
Mia Russell 30:41
See, that just for me brings up connotations of older men trying to put you in your place. And I don't appreciate it at all.
Shannon 30:54
Yeah.
Mia Russell 30:55
But if it's like, "Well, hey, they're a little lady." I guess it's okay.
Shannon 31:01
Like you're in a western themed park. (Laughter) I don't even know.
Meliza Manalo 31:06
The southern charm. The Southern Gentleman. It's nice and endearing from some rando.
Mia Russell 31:17
Yeah, little lady.
Shannon 31:19
Because I mean, a bunch of these words, it has connotations to 'You can't do it yourself'.
Mia Russell 31:25
Yeah, little makes you seem diminutive and like, yeah. Incapable.
Meliza Manalo 31:31
Yeah. Like, I think the male equivalent... I read this too, in my little Google search. But I guess this is kind of a racial slur, too. Calling a guy, a boy. Like saying boy.
Mia Russell 31:46
Oh, yeah. That's...
Meliza Manalo 31:47
I don't know if you've read that.
Mia Russell 31:49
That's definitely a racial slur.
Meliza Manalo 31:51
Yeah. So, it's like similar. Or like, you're demeaning someone by calling them lesser than what they are. If it's a grown ass man, but calling him a boy. Or an independent, strong lady. But you're calling her little, you know?
Mia Russell 32:06
Yeah.
Meliza Manalo 32:07
It's like stepping them down. Like, yeah.
Shannon 32:11
I have a tiny... okay, it's related, but a tiny tangent. Because I studied sociology of sport. And so, there's a whole thing about that of athletes. So, men are always being referred to men. And women in sports do still get called girls a lot. So just a comparison of the two of like, you should be calling it women's, you know? Women's sports.
Mia Russell 32:40
Women's sport, women's teams.
Shannon 32:42
There's studies done on broadcasts and stuff. And so, they are studying the languages of broadcasters or whatever are using when they're talking about all this stuff. And so, it's like, it's always men's. Men's this, men's that. But a lot of the time, instead of women, it's girls. It just puts a... it like infantizes them.
Mia Russell 33:09
I've seen that too. And noticed that.
Meliza Manalo 33:12
Interesting.
Shannon 33:15
Language. Language, man.
Meliza Manalo 33:17
It's difficult, especially cuz the average person, maybe wouldn't even do a double take all that. You know what I mean? Like, it's just so engraved into our vocabulary, you don't really think much of it. Kind of like what Mia was saying, when you say a word so many times, it loses its meaning. So, that's why definitely all of these are obviously situational. Like a Southern Gentleman versus the degrading grouchy man.
Mia Russell 33:47
They're also generational, because language can change over time.
Meliza Manalo 33:52
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, cuz no one says princess anymore. Really? And no one says spinster. Yeah, I honestly haven't even heard little lady. Only people who have ever said that are all older.
Shannon 34:08
I can't think of anyone our age who has... Yeah.
Meliza Manalo 34:12
Unless they're calling their kid. Like I've heard parents call her sons and daughters like little man or little lady. But that's cute. That's not degrading.
Mia Russell 34:22
Yeah.
Shannon 34:22
And like we said, with princess too. Like it's contextual also of what is happening.
Meliza Manalo 34:29
Yeah. Exactly.
Shannon 34:30
Okay, what do we got next? I'm liking all these words. And I like that we're in for the first time. So, what is my gut reaction.
Meliza Manalo 34:39
Right. It's like, do you cringe? Or you're like, "Oh, I like that word." Um, so I got this one. I saw this one. And I don't know how I feel about this one. Like, I don't know if that's good or bad. But like the fact that... okay, I'm trying to remember. I should have kept the article. I didn't. Sorry. So, no links in the description. My bad. What was it? So, this lady was talking about how... referring to a husband and wife. Like say, two guys were talking, they'll say like, "Oh, how's the missus? Or how's the wife?" But when it's women talking, it's like, "Oh how's Brandon?", "How's..." what's the guy name? Kyle. I couldn't think of anything. (Laughter) And so, they refer to the lady as what they are. Like the wife, the missus, you know? Whereas women tend to use more like the actual name.
Mia Russell 35:49
Yeah, and I feel like it puts them in a box a little bit to not be using their name. And kind of takes away from them as a human. You know?
Shannon 36:01
It looks like they're talking about them in terms of their relationship to someone else.
Mia Russell 36:06
Yes. So like, they're...
Meliza Manalo 36:08
And now when I ... it depends, you know? Like, if it's a close friend, then I would expect them to use my name. But if it's just Brandon's friend, and I don't actually know the person, then I guess it's fine. You know, because I kind of do that too. Like I say, like, "How's the boyfriend?" Or "How's the...?"
Mia Russell 36:30
Yeah, I mean, you could you could say that also, if you forgot their name. And it's a new relationship or something
Shannon 36:37
"How's that guy you're seeing?", "How's the boy?"
Mia Russell 36:42
Yeah. Or if they just got married, you know, then you're using that term because oh, they just got married. And it's a novelty.
Meliza Manalo 36:53
That's why I'm like, I would only see that as a negative if you were lifelong friends. And you guys built a relationship and you know the lady's name. And you're just still referring to her as just simply the missus or the wife. But I don't know. Even that, I wouldn't be butthurt if I overheard that, you know?
Mia Russell 37:13
Yeah. Like, I don't think that would offend me at all. But you know, it's never really happened to me either. So, I can't really say.
Shannon 37:24
Right. Not there yet.
Meliza Manalo 37:26
Oh, side tangent. Okay, so I got a letter from my sister-in-law she gave me an early birthday present. And she put Mrs. Like Meliza Manalo, and I'm thinking about it. Does that make sense? Because I never changed my last name. So, would it still be Mrs. Meliza Manalo? Because it makes me sound like I'm married to Manalo but I'm not. I just didn't change my last name.
Mia Russell 37:53
I don't know what the technical rules are with Miss, Mrs. and other such phrases. But...
Shannon 38:03
From my understanding, Mrs. is married. And M-i-s-s is unmarried. I think it's like widowed, or something?
Mia Russell 38:12
Yeah. Because there's a difference if you've been widowed. Then you have their last name.
Shannon 38:19
But I think regardless of you, if you change your name or not, you're still a missus? Because of your marital status.
Meliza Manalo 38:28
So like, say... I don't know if I... I mean I'll never become a teacher but, in that situation, would I be just Mrs. Manalo?
Shannon 38:38
Yes...?
Mia Russell 38:39
Probably?
Shannon 38:41
I mean, I say that with a dot dot dot question mark. I think so.
Mia Russell 38:45
Ellipses question mark.
Meliza Manalo 38:48
At that point, I'd probably just say, "Just call me Meliza." No need of formality.
Shannon 38:52
That is another thing that I've read about, too. Women have all of these designators, right? Of their relationship status but men are always mister.
Mia Russell 39:03
Always a mister.
Shannon 39:05
Always a mister. And the only other little Asterisk is Doctor as another title. For either though. But men are always mister. But women are Mrs, Miss or Ms. Or I don't know if there's another one.
Mia Russell 39:20
Well, they could be doctor, too.
Shannon 39:22
Yeah, yeah. Well, that's what he said. Yeah, they're both. That one's for both. Dr. Jill, we all know. Call her by her title. (Laughter) That's a whole other subject.
Mia Russell 39:39
Yeah, that's another tangent.
Continue to Part 2 to read the rest...