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S1E19 - How to Spot an INTJ w/ Leah Guillama (Part 2)

Episode Description:

Fairly recently, my sister-in-law and I took the 16 Personalities quiz, which is basically the free version of the Myers Briggs Type Indicator (MBTI) assessment. (Maybe some day I’ll take the actual one.) Not surprisingly, we ended up with both being an INTJ, except she’s an INTJ-T and I’m an INTJ-A. So, in this episode we talk about how to spot an INTJ.

Here’s the link to the quiz:

Here are the articles I reference:


Some parts of the transcript may be edited for better readability, but the content remains the same. Mostly removed duplicate words, vocal filler words, and added/removed some words for clarification.


Continuation from Part 1...

Meliza Manalo 1:04:00

Mm hmm.

Leah 1:04:01

It's not, it really isn't the end of the world. It's not going to change much.

Meliza Manalo 1:04:05

Yeah. I feel like our husbands kind of bring us back down to earth, you know? Like, we're flying a little too far away. And they just like, you know, slowly bring us back down.

Leah 1:04:15


Meliza Manalo 1:04:16

So, because they have... Don't they have similar? What's Fabian again?

Leah 1:04:22


Meliza Manalo 1:04:23

I thought it was pretty similar.

Leah 1:04:25

I don't remember. I didn't look into it much because he's not really into it. And so, he's super weird about it. But I don't remember off the top of my head what it is. Okay. Funny thing is though, I was looking up compatibilities. He's on the list that is really not compatible with INTJs.

Meliza Manalo 1:04:46

Oh, really?

Leah 1:04:48

Yeah. It's so funny.

Meliza Manalo 1:04:49

That's funny.

Leah 1:04:50

Which I can kind of understand because we are so opposite in a lot of ways. And I could see why that would be. But at the same time, it's also kind of beneficial because a lot of the traits that are considered INTJ that I don't like about myself, he kind of helps me get out of it and kind of change it a little bit. As much as you can be changed.

Meliza Manalo 1:05:17

I'm actually kind of curious then about Brandon's personality. Because it is pretty different from mine when I was reading it. But it's kind of the same thing, like what you're saying that they kind of help you with those certain traits that you don't. Brandon, definitely, throughout the years have helped me understand people's emotions and why they feel a certain way and how you should react to it. Like the proper way to react to it. So, that really helps. But I think they are pretty similar, which makes sense actually.

Leah 1:05:55

What is Brandon again?

Meliza Manalo 1:05:57

Um, I think he's like the ISTP or IS... ummm..

Leah 1:06:02

I think Fabian actually is along those lines.

Meliza Manalo 1:06:05

Oh, yeah. So, Brandon said ISTP-T. So, he's the turbulent.

Leah 1:06:09

Those are not exactly the same, but I think they're off by like one letter Because I think he's ISF-P or something like that.

Meliza Manalo 1:06:15

I think the turbulent ones. Oh, yeah. Because the TP, those are more like the 'Thinking' and then isn't the FP more like 'Feeling' or something like that?

Leah 1:06:26


Meliza Manalo 1:06:27

Yeah, I can't remember.

Leah 1:06:28

That makes sense. But the true pairs for INTJ is ENFP or ENTP. And I found out that Erica is actually an ENFP.

Meliza Manalo 1:06:40

Oh, funny.

Leah 1:06:41

Yeah. So that makes total and complete sense. Because I clicked with her so fast.

Meliza Manalo 1:06:46

So, what is it? EN what?

Leah 1:06:48


Meliza Manalo 1:06:49


Leah 1:06:50

Or TP.

Meliza Manalo 1:06:51

Or TP?

Leah 1:06:53


Meliza Manalo 1:06:53

FP and TP. Isn't that what Jhoane is?

Leah 1:06:57

No, she's ENFJ.

Meliza Manalo 1:07:00

Oh, J. Oh, P? Okay. P is 'Prospecting'. Okay. Hmm. That makes me kind of curious then. I want Bailey and Casey to do theirs.

Leah 1:07:09

I know, I can't wait to find out what theirs is.

Meliza Manalo 1:07:11


Leah 1:07:11

Definitely starts with an 'E'. That's for sure.

Meliza Manalo 1:07:13


Leah 1:07:15

Or actually Bailey might be. Oh, she'll probably still be an 'E'.

Meliza Manalo 1:07:18

She'll be an 'E'.

Leah 1:07:19

Do you have your percentages?

Meliza Manalo 1:07:21

Yeah. So, this kind of, so for the introvert part. I'm 96%.

Leah 1:07:30

That's not surprising. Mine is 88%.

Meliza Manalo 1:07:34

Yeah, that makes sense.

Leah 1:07:35

Introverted. Yeah. Which I can agree with.

Meliza Manalo 1:07:38

Yeah. Because I can spend a lot of time by myself. And I get very tired. Very fast. Around people.

Leah 1:07:48

I do too but I feel like I do have a slightly more tolerance. Or high tolerance than you do.

Meliza Manalo 1:07:53

Yeah, I think so too. Because we were video chatting with my nephew, with Joseph. And we didn't video chat for that long. I think ma4ybe an hour actually. And right after that, I was exhausted. I wanted to take a nap. I don't know. Just something about... like, even these interviews are very exhausting. That's why sometimes it takes me a long time to edit them. Because when I do a solo one, it's easy. I do it, edit it, and then I post it.

Leah 1:08:29


Meliza Manalo 1:08:30

But these other ones, it takes me a while. I have to like step away from it, take a break and then just listening to it is like a social activity.

Leah 1:08:39

Yeah. I totally feel that. Let's see. I think the next trait is 'Energy'. So that's the second letter. So, the 'N' or the... What is it? What's opposite 'N'?

Meliza Manalo 1:08:56

T. Wait, what?

Leah 1:08:58

'S'. 'N' or 'S', right?

Meliza Manalo 1:09:00

I think so. I don't know that's like... I don't know what all of them are.

Leah 1:09:04

Yeah. But I'm 62% intuitive. 38%. observant.

Meliza Manalo 1:09:12

I got... Oh, this has... this might... Yeah. I got 62% for intuitive. Is that what you said?

Leah 1:09:20

Oh, yeah, that's exactly what I got.

Meliza Manalo 1:09:22

Yeah. So, thinking and judging, it's kind of fairly in the middle of those. It's 58% for both of those, and assertive is 51%. But to be honest, in real life, I'm pretty assertive. So, I don't know. But granted, I did take this quiz two in the morning. I may not like fully understand, like, understood what I read.

Leah 1:09:51

Yeah. I think mine... mine is no doubt, I'm 78% turbulent.

Meliza Manalo 1:09:58

Oh really?

Leah 1:09:59

Yeah. So, that's where I get that 'T' from. Which I'm not surprised at all about. And then for judging and prospecting, so this trait reflects our approach to work planning and decision making. I'm 64% judging, 36% perspective. By the way, judging does not mean judgmental.

Meliza Manalo 1:10:22

Yeah. Let's make that clear.

Leah 1:10:24

I was like, man, I don't think I was that judgmental.

Meliza Manalo 1:10:28

Yeah. I know. I had to read that too. But yeah, it doesn't mean judgmental. Okay

Leah 1:10:37

Mm hmm. Nature, this trait determines how we make decisions and cope with emotion. So that's where the 'T' comes from. Like, our emotional standpoint.

Meliza Manalo 1:10:49

Oh, thinking?

Leah 1:10:50

Yeah, mine is 64% thinking. Which makes sense. 36% feeling. So, feeling would be the emotional part, thinking the logical part.

Meliza Manalo 1:11:04

Mm hmm.

Leah 1:11:06

So, I do tend to put, I try. I noticed that I do. I try to put logic first over my emotions. And it's really hard. Because I always have this big internal conflict with certain situations where, I want something because I want it. But I know logically, I shouldn't have it. And so, I'm constantly fighting and like, ahh but maybe I should just have it because I want it. But then I'm like, logically, that doesn't make sense. So, I can't. And so, I'm fighting with myself. And most of the time, I'll pick the more logical route.

Meliza Manalo 1:11:45


Leah 1:11:46

Like, especially when it comes to money.

Meliza Manalo 1:11:48

Yep. Oh, yeah, definitely.

Leah 1:11:50

Yeah. What I want to buy something, and I'm like, ahh, I really, really want this. But then I'm always like, do I need it? No, I don't need it. So, I probably shouldn't get it. And I do this back and forth, back, and forth, back, and forth. Sometimes it'll last for days. It's really bad. And then finally, in the end, I almost always choose not to buy it. Because I'm like, logically, I shouldn't be spending money on that.

Meliza Manalo 1:12:17

Yeah, I have a whole slew of stuff that I want to buy. And it's like, just a list that I have. And I will visit it every once in a while. But I wouldn't... I never buy anything.

Leah 1:12:29

I know I have a list that has been going forever. I have like Vinyls that I've been wanting to buy since 2014 or something like that. And I just never did because I feel so guilty about spending money on something like that.

Meliza Manalo 1:12:44

Yeah. And I feel like there's also a cultural aspect to it too. Because, I mean, I guess you can argue that it's still thinking, but there's times where I think, well, it's not logical, but then it would make someone happy to do it. And then I was thinking, but that's a logical thing to do. Because in the long run, it would be better for your relationship.

Leah 1:13:10


Meliza Manalo 1:13:11

Makes life easier and better. So, it's still a logical thing. But I don't know. It's difficult.

Leah 1:13:20

I've been there so many times.

Meliza Manalo 1:13:23

Um, okay. You want to go to another one? To another point. Let's see. So, we kind of already went over the 'You think with your head not with your heart' one?

Leah 1:13:27

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Meliza Manalo 1:13:35

Um, 'You keep it real. So, lies and small talk are not your thing. You appreciate truth and authenticity. You're deep, reflective and highly, intelligent and you only ask for others to reciprocate the hones you give them.' I mean, I hope that's true for everyone that they don't like to lie.

Leah 1:14:01


Meliza Manalo 1:14:03

I am a really bad liar.

Leah 1:14:05

I am too. I cannot do it.

Meliza Manalo 1:14:08


Leah 1:14:09

I feel immediately guilty. Like I just don't know how to do it.

Meliza Manalo 1:14:14

Yeah. I don't know how.

Leah 1:14:17

Well, we play this one game that almost kind of requires you to lie. It's a card game. And I'm surprisingly really good at it. Fabian gets so mad. Because he's always like, 'You can't lie. You tell me all the time you don't know how to lie, and you can't lie." But then in this game, I lie constantly. And I win a lot. Because I do. And for some reason, in this game, I can do it really well. But in real life, ummhmm I don't even try.

Meliza Manalo 1:14:46

I guess that makes sense. Because you're essentially playing a character. Right?

Leah 1:14:53

True. You are two characters.

Meliza Manalo 1:14:57

Oh, really? What game is this?

Leah 1:14:58

It's called 'Coup'. It's a card game. It's really great. I'll have to bring it next time or something. But everyone loves it every time we bring it somewhere. But you started out as two characters and you're basically trying to kill off everyone's characters. And each character has a specific like, what's it called? Effect basically. And you can lie about who you are. And so, you can kind of take on other characters effects and use those to your advantage.

Meliza Manalo 1:15:27

Okay. Yeah, I want to play that.

Leah 1:15:29

Yeah. It's really good. It's so much fun.

Meliza Manalo 1:15:32

Anyways, okay. So, this next one, I don't know. It says, 'You know what you want.' I'm a pretty indecisive person.

Leah 1:15:46

I am too. I've seen that a lot in the INTJ articles.

Meliza Manalo 1:15:51

I guess it depends on what it is.

Leah 1:15:53

Yeah. There are times where I'm like, yeah, I know what I want to do. Like in terms of planning things. Usually as soon as we have something set, we know that's what we want.

Meliza Manalo 1:16:07


Leah 1:16:08

But I can be very indecisive.

Meliza Manalo 1:16:10

Yeah, me too. I mean, I feel like I can be both. Extremely decisive and extremely indecisive. Because when it comes to gifts, for example, I know exactly what I want. Like the color and the type of stuff. Because I don't really like when people buy me gifts. Because a lot of times they don't know what I want.

Leah 1:16:37

It makes me feel so... It makes me seem really ungrateful. And I feel like I'm being ungrateful. But I'm the same way. I think it's just us being particular.

Meliza Manalo 1:16:50

Yeah. And I guess that goes hand in hand with the 'You know what you want.'

Leah 1:16:54

Yeah, I guess. Cuz I am a very, very... I think we talked about this last time. That how particular I am.

Meliza Manalo 1:17:03


Leah 1:17:04

And you can be pretty particular too.

Meliza Manalo 1:17:06

Mm hmm. Because people know my favorite color is fuchsia.

Leah 1:17:13

But it has to be specific.

Meliza Manalo 1:17:15

It's a specific shade of fuchsia.

Leah 1:17:17


Meliza Manalo 1:17:17

You know, it can't have too many red hues. But it can have too many purple hues. It's a specific shade. And then when it comes to clothes, people know I kind of neutral, in like earth tones. But it's like specific, you know?

Leah 1:17:37

This is why I hate when people ask me what my favorite color is.

Meliza Manalo 1:17:41


Leah 1:17:42

Because I can't answer that question. It depends on what it is.

Meliza Manalo 1:17:46


Leah 1:17:48

Because I am so particular, and it has to be specific shades for specific things.

Meliza Manalo 1:17:53

Yeah, exactly. It's specific to what it is. Like my favorite color is fuchsia. Yeah, sure. But I don't ever wear it. I would never wear fuchsia. It's too loud. It's too bright. You know? by love fuchsia things, you know, like a water bottle or like...

Leah 1:18:11

Yeah. Whenever people ask me that question, I end up just saying blue. But that's kind of a lie. I really love a specific type of blue.

Meliza Manalo 1:18:25

Mm hmm.

Leah 1:18:27

Like it has to be that watery like Aqua, kind of teal-ish blue. But it's not those. But then at the same time, I wouldn't ever wear that. And its certain things I like in that color. And I'm the same way with clothes. Usually, it's neutral tones. And there's... I love burgundy. But it's a specific type of Burgundy. Like sometimes burgundy is too purple. And sometimes it's too bright.

Meliza Manalo 1:18:57

Yeah, it's got to be like crimson. Like bloodlike.

Leah 1:19:04

Yeah. Like deep red, I guess.

Meliza Manalo 1:19:09

Because sometimes it looks like red wine, but I don't like red wine because it's too purple.

Leah 1:19:14

Yes. Exactly.

Meliza Manalo 1:19:15

Yeah, I get you. (Laughter)

Leah 1:19:20

This conversation is probably so boring to other people.

Meliza Manalo 1:19:24

Well, it might be fascinating to INTJs, because then they're probably like, "Yes! That's exactly how I feel.

Leah 1:19:32

This is why we have such a hard time with other people.

Meliza Manalo 1:19:34

Yeah, so it'll be interesting to see if other people find this interesting. Or maybe if I'll get INTJ listeners...

Leah 1:19:43


Meliza Manalo 1:19:43

... or something. I don't know.

Leah 1:19:48

All right, what's the next thing?

Meliza Manalo 1:19:50

'You're self-confident.'

Leah 1:19:53

Ummm it depends on if you're an 'A' or a 'T'.

Meliza Manalo 1:19:56

Well, it says, 'You know that when you're right, you're really right. And that's that.' Which we kind of talked about earlier.

Leah 1:20:04

Yeah, I can be that way.

Meliza Manalo 1:20:05

Because I am pretty... I am a self-conscious person. And I did... I don't want to say suffered from low self-esteem, but I guess that's kind of... I don't know how else to say that, but I did have to work on that. And that's like a... But what I am very confident about is my intelligence. And I tell people that I'm not trying to be narcissistic or anything like that. But I hate when people tell me how to do things, or how I should do things or whatever. Because I am smart. Like, I'm not stupid. And I don't like when people think I'm stupid. But other than that, like everything else, I know I have a bunch of flaws. But that one aspect of me. I do... like, I am proud of.

Leah 1:20:53

Mm hmm. Yeah, sometimes, I don't know. It kind of... for me, I can feel that way sometimes. But then, I remember in high school, I never... even though I was in the higher-level classes, I was always taking the honors blah, blah, blah. And everyone's like, "Oh my God, Leah you're so smart." But then to me, I didn't really have confidence in my intelligence. Even though technically on paper? Yes, you can call me smart. But being around that group of people, I felt like I was on the lower end of the smart people. I always felt so inadequate next to my friends who were scoring a 100% on all their tests. And then there's me. I feel like I had to struggle. And I was just constantly asking them questions like, I don't know, it felt like such a struggle to me. But then I look at other people and it's just a breeze for them. And that always kind of like... kind of hurt my self-confidence a little bit.

Meliza Manalo 1:21:57

Yeah, well...

Leah 1:21:58

But I think as I get older, it gets a little bit better.

Meliza Manalo 1:22:00

Yeah. And I don't really think of... So, I guess that's why I think I'm intelligent is that I don't think of book smart as necessarily as intelligent. Because there's more to life than that. If we abolish schools in general, what really makes you intelligent is not knowing when we signed the Declaration of Independence. What makes you intelligence is your ability to assess a situation. Now I have a brain fart. (Laughter)

Leah 1:22:34

Like, analyze a situation?

Meliza Manalo 1:22:37

Yeah, and come up with a solution, you know?

Leah 1:22:40

It's critical thinking.

Meliza Manalo 1:22:41

Yeah, exactly. That's exactly what it is. That's why I like portal or puzzle games.

Leah 1:22:47

Oh my God. Yeah.

Meliza Manalo 1:22:49

There's a lot of critical thinking.

Leah 1:22:51

I do love puzzles.

Meliza Manalo 1:22:54

I really love game shows. Like the Game Show Network, I used to love watching that with a dad when I was little.

Leah 1:23:03

I love and hate them. I really liked them. But then I get so irritated with the contestant sometimes.

Meliza Manalo 1:23:10

Mm hmm.

Leah 1:23:10

Because I'm like, just do it this way.

Meliza Manalo 1:23:15

I love the ones where you can play with them. And then... we spent last night watching Jeopardy! because it's on Hulu.

Leah 1:23:24

Oh my god, I love Jeopardy!

Meliza Manalo 1:23:27

I know, and like you get to learn at the same time, you know?

Leah 1:23:31

Yeah. I was at our friend Courtney's House. And I think Erica was there and maybe a couple of other people. And for some reason, we're drinking and stuff and for some reason I had the urge. We put on Jeopardy! I don't know why. We put on Jeopardy. And I specifically looked up Jeopardy on anatomy and stuff. And I never felt so smart in my life because I was getting all these Jeopardy questions, right? Because I just love anatomy and whatnot. And it's just so funny watching their faces. They're like, "How do you know all these?" And I'm like, "Well I did just take a class on it."

Meliza Manalo 1:24:10

Yeah, I know. There's this one. It was medical acronyms. And then one of the ladies was... she was a practicing, practicing? Practitioner. And there is one that she didn't get, but I got, and I was like, you're calling yourself a doctor? (Laughter) How did you miss this one?

Leah 1:24:31

Oh my God. Oh, that's embarrassing.

Meliza Manalo 1:24:34

It is. I was like, ooh! mm hmm. You should have done that. Now all your patients are questioning you.

Leah 1:24:41

Oh God.

Meliza Manalo 1:24:45

Okay. So, the next one is 'You're open minded.' Which I feel like we talked about earlier.

Leah 1:24:49

Yeah, I did talk about that one.

Meliza Manalo 1:24:50

But it says. 'Despite yourself, your high self-confidence you're receptive to ideas, and opinions outside your own. Because you're so rational, you consider all possibilities with an open mind.' And, yeah, which is true. I mean, we talked about that earlier that even though we think what we do is more efficient, and it's better and we're very confident in it, we're confident in it because we validated it. It's validated. It's confirmed, it's, you know, we tested it out.

Leah 1:25:22

We know it works.

Meliza Manalo 1:25:23

Yeah. And so like...

Leah 1:25:25

And if there's a better way to do something, then yeah.

Meliza Manalo 1:25:27

Yeah, exactly. I'm always open to improvement. And at work, we actually... if anyone's in IT or project management, there's the area of process improvement. And so, I'm always up and ready for more process improvement. I love that aspect of project management. And I think it's so important. Like, it's such an important area of work in general.

Leah 1:25:56

Yeah, I feel like I've done that a lot with my job too. With the training at the salon. I put together a whole training packet. Because I thought it would be more efficient to help train people. So, I did all this extra stuff, because I wanted it to be easier and quicker and just more comprehensive, I guess.

Meliza Manalo 1:26:22

I did the exact same thing at work, too. Because we have a new person. And so, when I started work this January, we didn't have any training materials. There were no job aids, there was no to do lists. There's nothing so me and my co-worker, I kind of wonder if she's an INTJ. But that's a different subject. But we've both created a checklist of exactly what you need to do, your trainings, what documents you need to sign and all that stuff. And we made job aids. And the job aids are meant for like, to literally throw at anybody and anyone can do it. Even an intern can come in and follow the step-by-step and be able to do it.

Leah 1:27:07

Yeah, those are so much fun to make.

Meliza Manalo 1:27:09

Yeah. So, we made like a whole, like, we made all the job aids, all the checklists. And I even planned out her training agenda, her schedule. And then my boss was like, "Thanks!"

Leah 1:27:27

Oh my God, even I love the Training packet I put together.

Meliza Manalo 1:27:30

I know. I wish I kept because I made like... we called it the Bible. And it was in my last project. And I wish I kept it because it was a binder, and it was color coded. And it had the different tabs. And I had them organized by daily, weekly, monthly, and ad hoc task and all that stuff. It was very pretty.

Leah 1:27:54

Oh, that sounds fun.

Meliza Manalo 1:27:57

It's very Monica. Ooh, do you think Monica is an INTJ?

Leah 1:28:00

Oh she... I don't know... I feel like she could be. Maybe she is. She's definitely got that like organization and...

Meliza Manalo 1:28:13

But she's very expressive.

Leah 1:28:15

Yeah, she is. I feel like she's more... like way too emotional.

Meliza Manalo 1:28:20

Yeah. Yeah. I think so too. But definitely like the organizational part of her.

Leah 1:28:29


Meliza Manalo 1:28:30

Oh, I love friends. Such a good show.

Leah 1:28:33

Maybe she's an INFJ. Or maybe an ENFJ.

Meliza Manalo 1:28:38

Yeah. That makes sense.

Leah 1:28:41

Like Ate.

Meliza Manalo 1:28:43

Yeah. Yeah! That makes more sense.

Leah 1:28:47


Meliza Manalo 1:28:50

Do you think Jhoane will ever go on the podcast? Do you think she'd want to?

Leah 1:28:54

I think she would.

Meliza Manalo 1:28:55

Okay. Jhoane is Leah's older sister.

Leah 1:28:58

I also refer to her as Ate.

Meliza Manalo 1:29:01

Yeah. So, if you're Filipino, that makes sense. But it's just like, Ate means sister. But you call, like you...

Leah 1:29:10

Your elders.

Meliza Manalo 1:29:11

Yeah. You call your elders.

Leah 1:29:12

You call your elders.

Meliza Manalo 1:29:13

Yeah. Whatever. It's difficult. There's just too many traditions. Okay, next one is... Well, we kind of talked about this already, but 'You have difficulty expressing your emotions.'

Leah 1:29:28

Oh, yeah. We had a whole thing about that already.

Meliza Manalo 1:29:30

Let's skip that. 'You're a hard worker.' That's true.

Leah 1:29:35

Yeah, I think so.

Meliza Manalo 1:29:37

I'm not lazy.

Leah 1:29:38

I mean, I am but I'm not. When it comes to school and stuff, I am a hard worker, and like, work. I feel like I am. But then at home I'm not always. I get tired, man.

Meliza Manalo 1:29:54

Yeah, me too. But once I get started on something, I'm like a steamboat.

Leah 1:30:00

Yeah, it's hard to stop.

Meliza Manalo 1:30:02

I don't know if that's the right word for it.

Leah 1:30:03

I feel... I know what you mean though. That's a good way to put it. Cuz I feel like once I stop, it's really hard to get going again.

Meliza Manalo 1:30:10

Yeah. Cuz aren't steamboats powered by coal?

Leah 1:30:14

Mm hmm.

Meliza Manalo 1:30:15

So, it takes a lot to get started. But once you're started...

Leah 1:30:19

Yeah. It doesn't stop.

Meliza Manalo 1:30:21

Yeah, exactly. Um, okay. 'You're independent. So, you're highly self-sufficient and don't rely on anyone else'.

Leah 1:30:32

That's one of my biggest things actually.

Meliza Manalo 1:30:36


Leah 1:30:37

Ever since I was a kid, I've always just wanted to be as independent as possible. I mean, I'm not always. Because it's really hard for anyone to be super independent. But that's one of my big things that I have to be independent. I have to make my own money. I have to. I always have to have a job. I always have to have a backup plan. I always have to be able to take care of myself.

Meliza Manalo 1:31:01

Yeah, I agree. I'm exactly the same way. I was actually talking to my mom about it. And she said that I've always been very independent. Even when I was a baby. Because she's saying, I started walking early, I guess. And then, when I started preschool, I didn't want her to hold my hand. Like, she told me this story the other day. I didn't want her to hold my hand. I didn't want her to basically, like, shadow me or anything. Like I kind of wanted to do things on my own. And I always walked on my own, I guess. Because she was always holding my brother's hand like when we cross the street or something like that. And I always wanted to be on my own. And it makes sense. Because I left at 18. You know, I got my car, and I got my own job. And I did everything pretty much on my own. Obviously, with some help here and there. Obviously, before you're 18 you can't really get everything on your own.

Leah 1:32:02


Meliza Manalo 1:32:03

But for the most part, I was pretty independent.

Leah 1:32:06

Yeah, I think I was pretty. As a kid I don't... I was kind of independent. I was also very scared of a lot of things. And I was very shy. So, it made it hard to be independent. But I just wanted to be. And I never like... I think it's part of being an introvert too, is that a lot of my memories as a kid are of me being alone. And just playing by myself or something. Or just doing something on my own. Like a lot of my memories are of that.

Meliza Manalo 1:32:38


Leah 1:32:39

I rarely think of like, whenever I was with a group of people or anything like that. It's like, those kind of go, they can go hand in hand.

Meliza Manalo 1:32:49

Yeah. I don't really remember my childhood too much. To be honest about it.

Leah 1:32:56

Have to think about it.

Meliza Manalo 1:32:58

Yeah, I have always wanted to be independent. And if anything was to happen to Brandon, if he died or whatever, I would probably end up just being alone. I probably just want to live by myself. In my own place.

Leah 1:33:15

I think about it too. Like if something bad wherever to happen. hopefully never. But that's how I imagined my life going too. It sounds really bad. But even as a kid actually, I always... I never really thought that I would get married or do anything like that. I thought I would... I always just had it in my head that I was gonna be alone with animals. That's it.

Meliza Manalo 1:33:40

Yeah, but not like in a sad way.

Leah 1:33:42

Yeah. It never made me sad or depressed to think about it that way.

Meliza Manalo 1:33:46

Cuz I always hear like in movies or TV shows, the insult is "I hope you grow old alone." And in my head, I was like, that's fine. Like, that's not a big problem. Yeah, I always thought that's such a weird insult. Like, okay. And? (Laughter) Okay, so this is the last one. And I'm really glad this is the last one on the list, actually. Because I think it's pretty funny because we kind of touched on it earlier. So, another characteristic of an INTJ is that we have dark sense of humor.

Leah 1:34:30

I think that's my favorite one actually. Because I hear that a lot about INTJs too. And I'm like, "Oh, okay, I'm not that weird then."

Meliza Manalo 1:34:43

Yeah, it's... Yeah, I have to be careful, too, though.

Leah 1:34:49


Meliza Manalo 1:34:49

Cuz I think I accidentally said a joke. I forgot what the joke was. But it was really bad because the person just died.

Leah 1:34:59


Meliza Manalo 1:35:00

And then I accidentally said this joke and I can't remember what it was. It wasn't bad. Like, it wasn't bad against the person. Like it wasn't negative towards the person or anything. But it was just kind of funny. I think it's like the way the person died or something like that. In my head, it was hilarious, and I had to refrain from laughing.

Leah 1:35:19

Oh my God.

Meliza Manalo 1:35:21

I was like, oh, okay, I need to watch myself.

Leah 1:35:25

Yeah, I've definitely been there. There are a lot of things that I know I should not say aloud. And I even feel bad myself for thinking them. I'm like, why? Why did you go there?

Meliza Manalo 1:35:41

Okay, it says, 'You have a very sarcastic and dark sense of humor that not everybody can handle.'

Leah 1:35:50

Yeah, you're definitely way worse than me when it comes to sarcasm too.

Meliza Manalo 1:35:55

Am I?

Leah 1:35:57

I think so. I can be sarcastic...

Meliza Manalo 1:35:58

I was sarcastic.

Leah 1:36:01

Oh my god. See? I'm so bad at detecting sarcasm, too. I use it all the time. But I can't detect it. It's terrible. I'm just like, oh, what? Really?

Meliza Manalo 1:36:18

I know. That's one of our ground rules at work. See, I feel like people in IT are... they're very similar to INTJ people.

Leah 1:36:29

Mm hmm.

Meliza Manalo 1:36:30

In general. One of our ground rules is 'No sarcasm'.

Leah 1:36:36

Cuz it'll offend people?

Meliza Manalo 1:36:38

Yeah. Because we have to always be careful in the meetings not to be sarcastic. Because it's unprofessional or whatever. I just thought that was so funny. But yeah.

Leah 1:36:51

Just made a whole rule on it.

Meliza Manalo 1:36:54

There's nothing wrong with sarcasm every once in a while. It's just...

Leah 1:36:57

It's a sign of intelligence.

Meliza Manalo 1:36:59

It really is, though. Because some people don't get me.

Leah 1:37:05

What an INTJ thing to say.

Meliza Manalo 1:37:08

Oh, so funny. I know I will never forget this. The essay. I'm pretty sure I told you. I think I told everybody. But that English essay had... when they thought...

Leah 1:37:23

Oh, your professor was like, "Too much sarcasm"?

Meliza Manalo 1:37:26

Yeah. So, I may have said this in the previous episode. I don't remember. But in case you guys didn't hear that story. Basically, in college in my English class, the teacher or the professor asked us to write an essay in our own persona. So, our own personal persona, like who we are. She asked us to write in our own voice. Okay. And I got points taken off because it was too sarcastic.

Leah 1:37:55

Oh my god.

Meliza Manalo 1:37:57

I think I kept that paper. I have to look for it somewhere.

Leah 1:38:00

That's so insulting. You got points taken off for the person you are?

Meliza Manalo 1:38:04

Yeah, I mean, I still got an A. But still, I probably could have gotten 100.

Leah 1:38:10

Oh, that makes me so mad.

Meliza Manalo 1:38:12

Yeah, I was like, are you serious? I didn't fight it at the time. But I was livid. I told all my friends. I was like, "Do you see this crap right here? Why am I even in college?"

Leah 1:38:24

So sad.

Meliza Manalo 1:38:26

It is. I was like, don't tell me to talk in my own voice and then knock me down for it.

Leah 1:38:32


Meliza Manalo 1:38:34

I need to read that paper because I don't... When I wrote it, I don't remember being sarcastic.

Leah 1:38:41

Probably cuz it's your own voice.

Meliza Manalo 1:38:43

Yeah. It's funny, because, so in high school, do you remember Mr... What's his? Oh, Webster. Duh, dictionary.

Leah 1:38:53

I love him.

Meliza Manalo 1:38:55

Yeah. So, I had to write a letter, or I had to write an essay. And the essay was because I had my phone out. And so, as punishment, he told me to write an essay about why I shouldn't have my phone out during testing. Because I think it was during STAR testing or something like that. And then the reason why I had my phone out is because I finished before everybody and I was bored. So, I was on my phone. However, What's his name? Shawn? I don't remember his name. But he was one of the soccer players. You know, Mr. Webster is really into soccer?

Leah 1:39:31


Meliza Manalo 1:39:32

Um, so he had his phone out too. So, in my essay... but he didn't get asked to write an essay. I don't know if he got caught or not. But in my essays, I think I wrote something along the lines with, "You know, it's really funny that I have to write this essay considering the other soccer player within the class also had his phone out. However, he wasn't asked to write an essay, but that's okay because I also write this essay anyways because I'm a good student." And he loved it. He ate it up. He laughed when he read it. And he said, "This is a really good essay. You're a good writer."

Leah 1:40:07

Oh my god, I love him so much. He was such a good person. It's funny because I was just about to bring up an essay that I had to write for him too. And he told us to write it in the voice of this character. I can't, for the life of me, think of what the book is. It's a really famous book. And the main character is very sarcastic. And I remember... because I hate English. I hate writing. Always hated it. But that I think, is the best thing I've ever written in my life. Because it was just writing in this character's voice who's extremely sarcastic. And I got to be like...So it's like, it does sound kind of unprofessional. And you kind of get to write it. I felt like I was writing it just the way I was. And it was just my thoughts. And they weren't like... it wasn't bad to be writing the way I wanted to write. And it was just so easy. It was the easiest thing I'd ever written. I'm pretty sure I got an A on it. And I even read it just like a couple years ago or something. I found it on my computer. And I read it. And I was like, wow, this is actually a really good essay. And I've never felt that way about any of my writing.

Meliza Manalo 1:41:21

Dang. That makes me want to go look for that essay if I still have it?

Leah 1:41:25


Meliza Manalo 1:41:27

Yeah, cuz this is like, before cloud? Like the cloud stuff, you know? So, it's all like hard copies. And I don't know if I kept all of them.

Leah 1:41:38


Meliza Manalo 1:41:38

Man, if only we had technology back then. I mean we did, but I don't know what happened to it.

Leah 1:41:47

Not like now.

Meliza Manalo 1:41:48

Yeah, not like now. Oh, well. Anyways, that's the list. That is like... Oh, I mean, I did find another one. But it's pretty much does the same thing. But the one thing I forgot I wanted to point it out. But I guess INTJs are also known for their resting bitch faces. (Laughter) Oh, man. If you guys only knew.

Leah 1:42:14

Oh yea. I feel like... Oh, I feel like I don't really have one. But then I have had instances where people have told me that I look scary or mean or unapproachable. But then at the same time, people do approach me all the time. So...

Meliza Manalo 1:42:29

Yeah, I've gotten people tell me I'm intimidating. And honestly, that makes me feel really good.

Leah 1:42:38

Yeah, I don't think that's really a bad thing.

Meliza Manalo 1:42:40

Yeah. I'm like, yeah, fear me. (Laughter) Just kidding.

Leah 1:42:46

Even though you're not fearful at all.

Meliza Manalo 1:42:47

No. I am a little weakling. I can't punch you, or anything. Like, I'll probably grab a pen and stab you or something.

Leah 1:42:57

Oh my God.

Meliza Manalo 1:42:58

I need to have no upper body strength. But yeah, I just thought that was funny. Because, I mean, that kind of goes back to earlier when we were saying, how people always ask us if we're okay.

Leah 1:43:11

Yeah. That's true. So, maybe it's not resting bitch face? Well, I think for me, it's like resting worried face or something like that. Or a sad face? Like, I always look like I'm worried or sad. Which I am worried all the time.

Meliza Manalo 1:43:28

Yeah, that makes sense.

Leah 1:43:29

That's part of the turbulence in me.

Meliza Manalo 1:43:31

Yeah. I always look angry. Which...

Leah 1:43:37

... is just you being assertive.

Meliza Manalo 1:43:38

Yeah. Because I don't think. I'm not always angry. I used to be a very angry person. Like, I used to think that I should probably go through anger management. But I think I grew out of that.

Leah 1:43:51

Probably the Filipino in you.

Meliza Manalo 1:43:53

Yeah, exactly. But I think I grew out of that. I'm not as angry as I used to be. But yeah, so that is the 'INTJ-How to spot us', I guess, in public.

Leah 1:44:07

But most of them are pretty accurate.

Meliza Manalo 1:44:10

Yeah, I think so too. Some of them, I feel like can go either way. And some of them, I feel like, um, there's a, there's definitely a cultural aspect to who we are too.

Leah 1:44:22


Meliza Manalo 1:44:24

Being a Filipino that plays a lot in my decision making. And it's like, just engraved into you, you know? Like, I was just telling Jhoane that my mom is still in my head a lot of times, even though I'm almost 30.

Leah 1:44:38


Meliza Manalo 1:44:38

I just can't help it.

Leah 1:44:40

Oh, yeah. Me too.

Meliza Manalo 1:44:43


Leah 1:44:43

Yeah. I mean, everyone. Even though you have like similar personality types, you may test the same as one person but doesn't mean you're exactly the same. You're gonna be different in so many other ways still.

Meliza Manalo 1:44:56

Yeah, exactly.

Leah 1:44:57

Because of how you grew up and whatnot.

Meliza Manalo 1:45:00

Yeah, but it is pretty eerie how accurate this is. Like...

Leah 1:45:06

It's nice to know kind of why you think a certain way?

Meliza Manalo 1:45:10

Yeah. I think it helps also validate parts of us, you know. Like we aren't weird. I mean, yeah, I guess you could say we're weird because we're such a small percentage.

Leah 1:45:24

I definitely feel better about who I am, I guess.

Meliza Manalo 1:45:30


Leah 1:45:32

Because...I don't know. It's just nice to know that there are people that do these weird things or think a certain similar way as me. Whereas in the past, it's been so hard to find other people that are like that.

Meliza Manalo 1:45:44


Leah 1:45:45

Question myself all the time. Like, why am I like this?

Meliza Manalo 1:45:49

Yeah. That's like the beauty of YouTube. You know, because then you can just search up your specific Myers-Briggs personality. And you'll find all kinds of resources and people who are just like you and if it's a small percentage. And this... that one chick, I forgot her name. The one with purple hair.

Leah 1:46:12

Oh, LiJo?

Meliza Manalo 1:46:14

Yeah. Like, she's a pretty popular youtuber too.

Leah 1:46:18

Mm hmm. Yeah, I really liked her videos a lot when it comes to the INTJ stuff. That's mostly what... she does other stuff, but I love watching her INTJ videos, cuz it really like... I just get it.

Meliza Manalo 1:46:34

Mm hmm. And I like how she talks. Because like, you know, I do the customer service voice a lot. But she talks pretty similar to how I talk in real life. It's very calm, monotone.

Leah 1:46:50

I think that's why I like listening to her too. Because I love the way she talks.

Meliza Manalo 1:46:56

I know. Bailey said that my voice is soothing. Because...

Leah 1:46:59

Yeah, I do I actually do like. I've always liked that you are kind of monotone.

Meliza Manalo 1:47:04


Leah 1:47:05

Yeah, I just... I don't know why.

Meliza Manalo 1:47:06

No one has ever said that to me.

Leah 1:47:09

I always have. I don't know why.

Meliza Manalo 1:47:11

Awww. I didn't know that.

Leah 1:47:13

It is calming.

Meliza Manalo 1:47:16

Yeah, because I... I don't think I've ever talked about this. Because I did talk about my monotone voice earlier. But it's hard for people to read me. And so, I had that incident with my co-worker. When she called me and she kept asking like, "Is it a good time for you?" I'm like, "Yeah, it's fine." But and she kept asking. And then I said, and then that's when I mentioned to her. I was like, "It's okay. I know that I have a monotone voice. And it's hard for people to read me." And she's like, "Oh", she's like, "Oh, good. I wasn't gonna say that. But..." She's like, "Yeah, I don't know what you're feeling right now." And I said, "Well, right now my I'm pretty indifferent, though."

Leah 1:48:05

I know.

Meliza Manalo 1:48:06

Like, "I'm not in immediacy. You can talk it to me now. It's fine."

Leah 1:48:08

I feel like we're just like, just content.

Meliza Manalo 1:48:11

Mm hmm.

Leah 1:48:12

I guess all...

Meliza Manalo 1:48:12

Like, I feel like... what?

Leah 1:48:15

I guess it's all it is. It's not anything crazy. Like you're not super happy. You're not sad or mad. You're just content.

Meliza Manalo 1:48:24

Mm hmm. That's why I feel like if I do talk like that around you, that's a good thing. You know what I mean? Like when I do have...

Leah 1:48:34

You're comfortable.

Meliza Manalo 1:48:35

Yeah, exactly. Because when I am super expressive. And I mean, a lot of times with Bailey and Casey, I do become a little more expressive around them. Because I do have a really good time with them. But if it's just like, one-on-one talking. Just us, you know, intimate talking. And I do have that monotone voice, it's just because I'm becoming more and more comfortable with you. Whereas it's like, if I'm super expressive, what I'm really doing, especially if I'm not...if I don't really know you, I'm mimicking your reactions. Because that's what I think is appropriate in that situation.

Leah 1:49:13

I've learned that that's called 'Masking'.

Meliza Manalo 1:49:16

Oh, there's a word for it. There's a word for everything.

Leah 1:49:19

Which I've always felt like I've done that. And I just recently found out what that is.

Meliza Manalo 1:49:27

That's interesting.

Leah 1:49:27

And so, now I feel less like a sociopath. Because I realized I'm just masking.

Meliza Manalo 1:49:33

Oh, I need to look that up. That's an INTJ thing. Ummm... Oh, I didn't know that was a thing. But I guess that makes sense. I'm sure a lot of people do that.

Leah 1:49:45


Meliza Manalo 1:49:46

Well, thanks for getting on here. I feel like we talked for a super long time. But honestly, I love this whole thing. I remember taking it in high school. But I don't remember what I got. I wish I knew what I got.

Leah 1:50:00

Yeah. I think I'm pretty sure I tested as an INFJ in high school. Which makes sense because I feel like I teed here on the 'F' and 'T'. Like the feeling and the thinking.

Meliza Manalo 1:50:13


Leah 1:50:13

Because even now my percentage for the thinking isn't super high.

Meliza Manalo 1:50:17


Leah 1:50:18

It's just more than feeling. So...

Meliza Manalo 1:50:21

I also think, because our brains aren't fully developed yet, either. I feel like what you scored back then, maybe similar to what you would get now, but it's not 100% reflective of who you really are.

Leah 1:50:35

Yeah, exactly.

Meliza Manalo 1:50:36

You know? Yeah. Because we're still... because in high school, I wanted people to like me. And I wanted friends and stuff. And it wasn't until later that I realized that all of that is just so exhausting, and I don't actually want it.

Leah 1:50:49

Exactly. Yeah. Because who doesn't really want to be liked, I guess.

Meliza Manalo 1:50:57

Yeah. Well, because that's fed to you. You know, every movie, every TV show. That's what people want is to be liked and loved by many. Whereas, in reality, I'm okay being liked by maybe a couple.

Leah 1:51:13

Oh, yeah.

Meliza Manalo 1:51:14

You know. I was so worried in high school. If people hated me.

Leah 1:51:20

Mm hmm.

Meliza Manalo 1:51:21

But now I'm like, I don't care. That's too bad for you. Because I'm a pretty awesome person. (Laughter) Just kidding.

Leah 1:51:32

That's your 'A' right now. (Laughter)

Meliza Manalo 1:51:37

Really it is though. Oh, because I'm a fun person.

Leah 1:51:43

I know you are. I mean, I still hang out with you.

Meliza Manalo 1:51:47


Leah 1:51:48

It's been how many years now?

Meliza Manalo 1:51:50


Leah 1:51:51

It's been how many years now?

Meliza Manalo 1:51:53

I moved in with you guys in 2010. So, 10 years.

Leah 1:51:58


Meliza Manalo 1:51:59

You still deal with me, so that's fine.

Leah 1:52:01

Yup. I volunteered to come on this podcast.

Meliza Manalo 1:52:05

Yeah. No one forced you.

Leah 1:52:06

Exactly. (Laughter)

Meliza Manalo 1:52:10

Alright, well, thanks for joining me. Uh, I think we should do more. Like INTJ... Like, we can have an INTJ segment.

Leah 1:52:19

There are so many things to talk about.

Meliza Manalo 1:52:21

Yeah, exactly. Like there's...uhh there's so many so many.

Leah 1:52:26


Meliza Manalo 1:52:27

I mean, that one chick has a whole YouTube channel about it. So, there's clearly a lot to talk about INTJs.

Leah 1:52:34

Too much. I know there are so many other things that I kind of wanted to talk about today. But this has gone way too long to bring up those things.

Meliza Manalo 1:52:42

Yeah. And I'm hungry.

Leah 1:52:43

Yes. (Laughter) We're supposed to be going to a barbecue right now. So...

Meliza Manalo 1:52:47

Oh, you are? Is Fabian home?

Leah 1:52:50


Meliza Manalo 1:52:51

Okay, well, then you guys should probably, you probably should be socially prepared for that.

Leah 1:52:55

I know. I have been all day. Don't worry.

Meliza Manalo 1:52:58

Okay, good.

Leah 1:53:01

I've known about it for a few days now. So...

Meliza Manalo 1:53:04

Oh, good. Okay. That's good.

Leah 1:53:07


Meliza Manalo 1:53:10

Well, thanks. Thanks for coming on.

Leah 1:53:12

Yeah, thank you. Anytime. I'm excited for the next one already.

Meliza Manalo 1:53:17

Me too. Thanks so much for listening. And I hope you enjoyed this episode. If you enjoyed the show and want to stay in the know, please follow me on social media. I am on Facebook and on Instagram. You can also check out my website at All the information will be on there as well as in the description. If you like the show, or even if you don't, please consider rating and reviewing me on Apple Podcasts. If you leave a review, I'll make sure to feature in a future episode. Thanks so much. And I'll talk to you guys in the next episode.

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