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S2E14 - We Interview a Witch w/ Mia Russell and Delena Pt. 1 (Part 1)

Episode Description:

In this episode, Mia introduces me to her friend, Delena, a real-life witch and an introvert! This is Part 1 of our interview with Delena. We had so many questions that we had to split this into two parts. Make sure to look out for that episode.

Crossroads Metaphysical Store:


Some parts of the transcript may be edited for better readability, but the content remains the same. Mostly removed duplicate words, vocal filler words, and added/removed some words for clarification.


Hey, everyone! This is Meliza, and I'm The Talkative Introvert.

Mia Russell 0:11

Dude, the craziest thing happened to me today.

Meliza Manalo 0:14

Oh my god, good that I'm recording this. Tell me.

Mia Russell 0:17

I'm in line for Jack in the Box drive thru for breakfast because my lunch was at 10am today. And I'm just minding my own beeswax and the car in front of me all of a sudden hits the car in front of it. And I'm just like, oh sh*t. Some drama is about to happen.

Delena 0:37

Sorry, what are you talking about?

Mia Russell 0:38

Oh, just something that happened to me today. Catch up to speed, in the Jack in the Box drive thru line in my car.

Delena 0:45


Mia Russell 0:46

And on my lunch, which was at 10am. So I'm getting breakfast. And the car in front of me hits the car in front of it. And she gets all pissed off and jumps out and then realizes he's having some sort of heart attack or seizure or something like that. And just starts screaming, "He's dying. He's dying. Somebody called 911!"

Delena 1:09

That's a lot.

Mia Russell 1:10

And I'm just like, "Okay, lady, you're not handling this right. I drove my car in the park, run up there, open his door, see if he is conscious at all. He's not. He's having a seizure. He has Starburst gummies in his mouth that are halfway in halfway out of his mouth. So I swoop my finger across and scoop them out before he chokes to death. He has a seizure for about one to two minutes. And this lady calls 911. And 911 is not being helpful. They're like, "What's he doing?" And she's like, "He's having a seizure. Goddamit!"

Delena 1:44

Yeah. Fu*kin nothing. He's lying on the ground.

Mia Russell 1:48

I didn't get him out of the car. Wanted him upright Because he had the stuff in his mouth.

Delena 1:52

Yeah, that's fair.

Mia Russell 1:53

Yeah, but he bit his tongue. And so there's blood everywhere. And it was just like, oh, sh*t. Now I have stranger blood on me. And it was crazy. And eventually the ambulance came and he kind of came out of it. But he didn't know where he was. He didn't know what time it was. He didn't know what day it was. He didn't know what year it was like, anything. He didn't know what happened. And I'm just sitting here like, I'm on my lunch. I have to go.

Delena 2:20

Yeah, another time y'all.

Mia Russell 2:22

Yeah. So that happen today.

Meliza Manalo 2:27

How fun. (Laughter)

Mia Russell 2:28


Delena 2:29

That's too much.

Mia Russell 2:30

Yeah. Okay. All right. Sorry. We're getting back again.

Meliza Manalo 2:37

No. That's okay. All right. Let me do my little intro. I'm super excited for today's episode, joined by my friend Mia who have been in previous episodes. If you listen to our latest one introvert dating update, towards the end, I was telling Mia how it'd be so awesome to interview a legit witch. And Mia being the amazing person that she is, is actually friends with one in real life. So today, Mia and I interviewing a witch. We're joined by Delena who's going to talk to us about being a witch. And thank you so much for going on. When Mia told me that she had a friend and she was willing to like talk about all this stuff, I was kind of fan girling a little bit. (Laughter)

Delena 3:26

Thank you. That is funny. I never think about it very much. But I guess I am a lot of people's witch friend. (Laughter)

Meliza Manalo 3:34

Because I've never met one before.

Delena 3:37

You probably have and just have no idea. We're like the gays.

Meliza Manalo 3:40

Oh, yeah, that's true. You can't be like, well, she could be a witch. I don't know. That's true. I wouldn't know. So maybe I've met one. But thanks for getting on. And willing to answer these questions we have.

Delena 3:56

Yeah, that's fine. I'm excited. When Mia messaged me, I was like it depends on the energy of what the podcast is about, but I trust me to not leave me astray. (Laughter)

Mia Russell 4:09

Oh, yeah. I don't want to do anything that make you uncomfortable or anything like that.

Delena 4:13

Yeah, it seems pretty cool. So far.

Meliza Manalo 4:15

All right. Good. I'm glad. I don't know if you'll like my podcast. You don't have to listen to it.

Delena 4:23

I probably will.

Meliza Manalo 4:25

Okay. That makes me nervous.

Delena 4:26

Don't worry. I haven't yet. So it's okay.

Meliza Manalo 4:31

Okay. I hope you still like me afterwards.

Delena 4:34

Yeah, you sound fun. I'm sure it's fine.

Meliza Manalo 4:36

Thank you. No one's ever said that. (Laughter) You seem easy to talk to when we were doing our little pre show talk. And during out text I was like, I like this girl's energy.

Delena 4:50

Aww. thank you. I try really hard. Because I lived with a lot of really sh*tty people for a long time. So I was like, I don't want people.

Mia Russell 4:58

Oh no.

Meliza Manalo 5:01

Not necessarily my family, but just roommates.

Mia Russell 5:04

Oh, yes.

Delena 5:05

Yeah. I'm like you had to do it wrong. (Laughter)

Meliza Manalo 5:12

Well, first off, most people, most followers who've listened to the podcast, kind of know Mia cuz she's already been on the show, and all that stuff. So I thought maybe we can like ask a little questions about yourself, just to describe yourself a little bit. And the first one I had is, do you consider yourself as an introvert or an extrovert?

Delena 5:35

Oh, I'm an indoor kid. (Laughter) If I know all of the people present, I'm usually fine. But I'm definitely introverted. I like to hide away in my cave especially now, after the last year. I'm just like a Feral Goblin. (Laughter)

Meliza Manalo 5:59

I know. I feel bad for all the things that's happened last year, obviously. But it's also been really nice to work from home. And social distancing, I really hope never leaves.

Delena 6:10

I am terrified of the day that people get brave enough in the supermarket to crowd you at checkout again. I used to get like not a full panic attack, but I would go into alert mode when people get too close to me.

Mia Russell 6:26

Yeah, for sure.

Meliza Manalo 6:27

Oh, yeah. Oh, it's so annoying. Especially when they smell.

Delena 6:31

Especially when they're like big a*s dudes. They're just large and in your area. Like no. to me.

Mia Russell 6:39

Just them breathing in your space is too much. And I mean, that goes for anyone for me.

Meliza Manalo 6:47

Yeah. Like we can feel their body heat. That's too much. But good to know that you're an introvert. I mean that's the title of this podcast, the talkative introvert. And that's kind of how I started and all that and talking about introverts.

Delena 7:09

Thank you soooo much, Meliza. (Laughter)

Meliza Manalo 7:12

No, that's really good. I mean, that helps with the podcast, make sure it blows, it keeps going.

Delena 7:18

My ex called me an audio book instead of an open book. (Laughter)

Meliza Manalo 7:22

Oh, that's funny. I've never heard of that. I like that one. (Laughter) Yeah. So have you ever taken the MBTI or an enneagram or any type of that stuff?

Delena 7:36

Yeah, I know my Myers Briggs is the green hippie lady. I think it's called the mediator. It's INFP.

Mia Russell 7:45

I think that's what I either used to be or am. I totally forgot what I am.

Delena 7:50

And then I took my Enneagram. But it makes no sense. And I have to give them money for them to tell me about it. So I don't know who am I. (Laughter)

Meliza Manalo 7:59

I don't know what my Enneagram is either.

Mia Russell 8:01

Yeah, same.

Delena 8:04

It was the same question eight different times. And I was like, is this a STAR test? (Laughter)

Mia Russell 8:09

Yeah. Back in elementary school.

Meliza Manalo 8:12

Yeah. I don't get the numbers. Like...

Delena 8:16

You've to give them $50, though. They'll explain it to you.

Mia Russell 8:19

Gosh, give me $50 and I'll explain it to you. (Laughter)

Meliza Manalo 8:25

Yeah, exactly. Cool. So, you're an INFP. Okay. Go ahead.

Mia Russell 8:29

Yeah. Do you do astrology or Zodiac type stuff?

Delena 8:35

I know mine because my mother does. I'm a Scorpio with a Virgo rising and a Libra moon. And she is a Virgo with a Scorpio rising and then a cancer moon. So we thought at that point that we both had cancer moons but it turns out it's not. But she runs all of our birth charts like within a week of us coming out. (Laughter)

Mia Russell 8:59

Oh wow.

Delena 9:00

So I have access to my birth chart. I was a little bit into astrology when I was in high school but now I just sort of casually know. Like I loosely know the dates. Like I know July as a cancer because I got a birthday in July. And I know that October November is Scorpio because all of my friends are Scorpios (Laughter). Like I know loosely based on other friends but I couldn't sit down and be like, oh Gemini. Mmmm. Like I can't. (Laughter)

Meliza Manalo 9:35

Yeah. Does your mom knows how to? Oh, sorry?

Delena 9:41

No, go ahead. Go ahead.

Meliza Manalo 9:42

I'm just asking like, so your mom like knows how to read birth charts and stuff?

Delena 9:48

Yeah, well there's just a program that you you type the day in and then it used to be a CD that you would buy. And this was like in the 90s. You put it into your computer, and then you just type in all the birth info and it just spits out. Probably like the Myers Briggs report. It just like spits out what all the numbers mean. And it's like a book. It's like 30 to 40 pages. And then she would just find it. And then they were just in the house. So I found them, you know? That kind of thing.

Meliza Manalo 10:23

That's cool.

Delena 10:24


Meliza Manalo 10:24

What were you saying Mia?

Mia Russell 10:27

I forgot. Sorry. It was just something vague about how I know what I am. Like, I'm a Taurus, and I know that my mom's a Cancer. But I don't know any of the risings or moons or sons or anything like that.

Delena 10:50

I know of them. Full stop. (Laughter)

Mia Russell 10:56

Yeah, I know I'm a Taurus. And that's it.

Meliza Manalo 10:59

Yeah, I feel like they're pretty accurate. Or at least mine is unfortunately. (Laughter)

Delena 11:07

Some of them are written though, so that they apply to literally everyone. And some of them are like they cut a little deeper. I used to just like for funsies, go through and compare all the romance. Like, what's this is like with Scorpio? (Laughter) Am I compatible with a Sagittarius?

Mia Russell 11:28

Yeah. I used to do the same thing.

Delena 11:31

Yeah. But then I just sort of...

Meliza Manalo 11:34

That's why I did the Myers Briggs. If I knew a couple, like if I knew their Myers Briggs, I checked to see if they were compatible.

Delena 11:43

Yeah. (Laughter)

Mia Russell 11:46

Oh I see. I know Greg and I are both green. I have to look at it. I remember the little characters. I never remember the letters.

Meliza Manalo 11:57

Yeah. I didn't realize the colors were associated. I thought they're just random.

Delena 12:04

No. So, purple. I'm looking at it right now. Purple is analysts. Green is the diplomat. Blue is the Sentinel. And yellow is the Explorer.

Mia Russell 12:16

Yeah, I think I'm the green one.

Delena 12:18

Yeah, I think you're the green one.

Mia Russell 12:20

I think Greg is a protagonist, which is a green one. That little character looks familiar. We all did this six years ago. (Laughter)

Meliza Manalo 12:29

Yeah, I remember doing in high school. Did we do in high school, Mia?

Mia Russell 12:35

Um, we might have for freshmen seminar or whatever that bs class was.

Meliza Manalo 12:42

That I got a C on.

Mia Russell 12:44


Meliza Manalo 12:46

Yeah, I don't know how I got a C. I think I just didn't care about it. I was like this is a dumb class. I'm not gonna care.

Mia Russell 12:53

It really was. But me being me, I was like, must get straight A's. So i had to do all this stupid work.

Meliza Manalo 13:02

I had the 'She could be so good if she just applied herself'.

Delena 13:08

That was me because I didn't do homework. And I tested incredibly, because I just shoved sh*t in my head and it stays there. Like my friends call me wiki because I just know, random bullsh*t so much. But my teachers are always like, "She could apply herself." And then now I'm like, I had ADHD and I needed help. (Laughter)

Mia Russell 13:36

Yeah, same.

Meliza Manalo 13:38

So I know that I asked you before the show. But I did ask you, which was the appropriate term? And then you said you were going to elaborate on that.

Delena 13:48

Yeah. So there's witchcraft, and then there's Wicca. And then there's 1000 umbrellas of anything that could feasibly be connected to witchcraft. So Wicca and a Wiccan is a path. So that is like a Protestant. Like Wicca has a structure and its own rules and that sort of thing. Witchcraft and paganism are like the umbrella on top of that. And then witchcraft and paganism themselves are sort of a Venn diagram. I won't go full like anthropology on it, because I don't remember most of it. But I'm definitely not a Wiccan. We follow CUSP, which is Climbing Up the Spiral Pathway, which is a path that my parents and their Coven actually sort of designed in the 90s, 1993-94 I think. Probably wrong, but something like that. So that follows under a paganism and then the path can be applied to any religion under that. Because witchcraft itself isn't like the religion, it's the practice. And so there can be Christian witches and there can be atheist witches and stuff like that. And my mom likes to tell the story that one of her cousins is the best witch she ever met. But she's like super Christian. Like devout Christian. I've spoken to her because my mom moved to California. Well, she moved out of the South in the 70s. And then I was born in California. So I've met all of those people. Once when I was like, two and a half, you know? Yeah.

Meliza Manalo 15:52

You can be a Christian witch? Seems like an oxymoron.

Delena 15:57

So, yeah. It does for a lot of stuff. Did you ever watch The Beverly Hillbillies?

Meliza Manalo 16:06


Mia Russell 16:06

I know what you're talking about though.

Delena 16:08

Yeah. That one's getting a little out there. I mean, it's even out there for my age group. The granny on that show? She was a water Finder. She did what they call granny magic, which is an Appalachian tradition where the broom falls over and visitors are coming, or you... What's the word where you look for water?

Mia Russell 16:36

Oh, the divining rod?

Delena 16:38

Yeah. I'm googling it. Sorry, excuse my tappy tappies. (Laughter). Yeah, I think divining might be the word. I feel like there's another word. But that sort of stuff. And then some of them could read the way that their egg cracked and make decisions based on that. That's all called granny magic. And that's not necessarily a type of paganism, but it is a type of witchcraft. So Voodoo is a religion, hoodoo is the practice. So Voodoo is tied very closely to Catholicism and their own African roots up through the air. And then Hoodoo is using roots and brick dust and whatever you have on hand, to do spells basically. Or just any kind of meditational casting. And that is the practice which is a type of witchcraft. And then you also get into like going... I said no anthropology, but I'm going to go anthropology. (Laughter). In South America, those tribes, I don't remember what they're called. I know one of them is the Yanomami. This might be the wrong one. But one of them will do dances where spiritually, they will go forth and attack their rival village. And spiritually, they will have the battle without ever stabbing anybody, you know?

Meliza Manalo 17:02

Oh, okay.

Delena 17:25

And they just send the energy out to them. And then they celebrate as if they win the battle, like that kind of thing. And that is considered a type of witchcraft.

Mia Russell 18:21

So basically, there's like, hundreds of types of quote unquote "Witchcraft". But they're all called different things. And...

Delena 18:33

I'm sure there's a definition from the anthropology point of view that I forgot because I took that class like 10 years ago. But it's the kind of thing where a person puts their intention and spiritual energy towards completing something with direct action, but also with the call down to a higher power to assist. Sort of.

Mia Russell 19:02

So is that like what you do?

Delena 19:04

Yeah, for the most part. Mine is... my specific Delena brand.

Mia Russell 19:11


Delena 19:12

I work in a lot of the ways with intention. So there's three in Wicca and then there's also something called Gardneriens and Alexandrians. And they are very by the book about it. But that kind of paganism witchcraft thing, there's 10 million names for the types. Like there's Druids and there's Asatrus. And there's... I don't remember the other one. One of them is Odin, and one of them is Thor. (Laughter) And all that kind of thing. And some of them have what's called the levels. And so there's first level witch, second level witch and third level witch. The first level is the dabbling and the learning. You're the student. And then the second level is you're the teacher. And the third level is you're the master, you're the priestess. And I did take all three of my levels. And a lot of the things that they teach are about working with intention and speaking with intention in your everyday daily life. And the way that that's worked for me sounds a lot like psychology. where you just speak your intentions into the world even when you talk about yourself. Like you never say, "I had a bad day." Because you've got all this day left. You can just say, the last few hours have been really hard. Like that kind of thing. And then I have people go like, "Well, that's just psychology." And I'm like, yeah, that's why it works so well.

Mia Russell 20:43

That's cool. The secret. You know Oprah's The secret that she made all popular?

Delena 20:48

Yeah, I never read it, but I know of it.

Mia Russell 20:51

Yeah, same. But it's just like a mindset type thing. I like that.

Meliza Manalo 21:01

Yeah, me too.

Delena 21:02

Yeah, it's nice. And then there are some... Like with Wiccans, they have a whole 'Identify God and Goddess' I think. I don't know I wasn't raised in Wicca. This is just what I've as mostly read. So they have the green man who is like the god figure. And then I want to say Mother Gaia probably, like the earth. And then it's like the trees and the sky and the spirit. And then they have the Maiden, the Mother, and the Crone. And the maiden is like sweet and virginal and precious. And then the mother she's witch child, has been made love to. She knows more about the world and is caring and nurturing. And then the Crone is post motherhood, menopausal. That you don't have to baby anybody anymore. Like you're an adult, you know the world. You work through it. And I sort of lost my thread. (Laughter) Where was I going with it? But ours is based a lot more on the agricultural calendar rather than like a god and goddess. We use all the gods and some people might not like that. Like if we need to talk to somebody about something we Google the God that wants to do what we want to do, and not necessarily where it comes from. Sometimes that can be... especially nowadays. In the 90s and the early 2000s, it wasn't really a problem, but now it can kind of be a problem. Because everybody...

Meliza Manalo 22:40

What do you mean by that?

Delena 22:41

Appropriation wise. There's closed religions. And I know some people work with Lilith who is the official first woman before Adam. And she was thrown into hell for wanting to be on top. And I know of some Jewish people that take real offense to people working with Lilith because that's very core to their tenants. I don't know a lot about Judaism or the Torah. But the person who was very angry about it, told me that not to use it. So sometimes just grabbing a random God, some people might take offense to that. But we had a book that was 365 Gods and Goddesses for every day. So you would just like go through and find who you vibe with. And sometimes you get called. Like, I went through a few months in. No, probably a year or two in high school, where Kali came up every goddamn second. Like I was...

Mia Russell 23:56

Like the destroyer?

Delena 23:58

Yeah. Kali the destroyer. I think she's Indian?

Mia Russell 24:00


Delena 24:02

Like, I would just be watching TV, and a movie came on, or I would switch channels, and it would be the part of Indiana Jones where he's like, "Kali maa!" Like that kind of random thing happens all the time. It's called synchronicities. But Kali came up like eight or nine times in the course of a few weeks. And then I was like, alright, maybe she wants to talk to me. Maybe I should look into this sort of thing. And it helps. Sorry, go ahead.

Mia Russell 24:38

No, go ahead.

Delena 24:40

Oh, it helps because she's the goddess of time and creation and destruction and power. And I was deep into puberty, you know? So I'm going through a lot of sh*t. And so, taking that you look for the book about or you find out something to honor and talk and then you meditate on it. And then sometimes...

Mia Russell 25:05

That's how you would communicate with her?

Delena 25:07

Sometimes some people... I'm bad at meditating.

Mia Russell 25:13

Me too.

Meliza Manalo 25:13

Me too.

Delena 25:15

But typically when I meditate, especially guided meditation, they'll be talking about something and I'm doing other sh*t. Like one time, I did a past life regression. And she was like, you find this beautiful temple that's full of doors, you're going to pick a door, and then you're going to stop and be with it. Well, mine was an arch way that I could see, like sun and like the mountains, and I could see all the sh*t on the other side of the archway. And she's like, "Look at your door. What kind of what is it made out of? Touch it. Does it do anything?" And I'm just like, f*cking there's nothing here. (Laughter) I would like to go look at that garden down there, please. (Laughter)

Meliza Manalo 26:06


Delena 26:07

So some people really connect with their gods through meditations. And then I've mostly just sort of thought about it in my day to day and then accepted signs as they come, that sort of thing. I'm really passive about all of it. Because it's been for so long, if that makes sense. Like a lot of people have to work really hard to shield, which is where they intentionally protect their thoughts and themselves from being affected by their environment and other people who... like evil eye kind of thing. It's called shielding. But I never had to do that. Mine's just sort of always on. And so people are like, "How do you do this?" And I'm like, I don't know. (Laughter)

Meliza Manalo 27:01

You're lucky.

Delena 27:03

Yeah, I think it's just from being brought up with it.

Meliza Manalo 27:07

I do like the idea of the different gods and picking the one that really resonates with you or resonates with you at the time. I kind of have an issue. Well, my mom doesn't listen. I kind of have an issue with just one God. Because everyone is just so different. It's kind of like the whole like the President or the governor. It's so hard to please a mass of people because we're all just so different, we have different backgrounds and different struggles and stuffs. I like the idea that there's different gods for different... I don't know, it's like issues if that's the right word?Or not issues, but like...

Delena 27:55

Just connected.

Mia Russell 27:56

Their special work.

Delena 27:57

They work with one god their whole life even.

Meliza Manalo 27:59


Delena 28:01

Yeah, I know right now... like I said before, some people have a problem with that. Especially when it comes to ancestor worship and that sort of thing. But the thing that I've heard, I don't do a lot of ancestor worship, so it doesn't really come up very much. Like everybody has an ancestor. And so the Day of the Dead thing, some people are like, "Hey, that's ours." And I respect that. And I can agree with that to a point but everybody has somebody in their life. They could be like, "Hey, how you think it's going?"

Mia Russell 28:38

Yeah, like talking to a deceased relative?

Delena 28:42

Yeah. Or even just praying to them or burning a candle for them or that sort of thing. Maybe not a full ofrenda like Day of the Dead thing? But we do Sauin, it's the night of the 31st over into the first, and it's one of the High Holidays.

Mia Russell 29:02

Is it October?

Delena 29:03

Yes, sorry.

Mia Russell 29:05

No, it's okay. Just wanted to clarify.

Delena 29:06

Yeah, the night of Halloween over into November 1st. And part of that is calling down, not necessarily an ancestor but somebody whose past that you want to talk with. Like, I know, my brother used to call Jim Morrison all the time. (Laughter) Because we were kids, so we didn't have dead people. So a lot of the people in the circle had actual relatives that had passed. So I was always just like, I like Elvis. (Laughter) Like I'm only just now getting into having people that have passed and I'm 28. That sort of thing. But it's hard especially as me, a white girl who was raised with all of this. I don't want to appropriate, but also everybody's information is different, you know? And so I just try.

Mia Russell 30:10

Yeah. I mean all you can do is try your best at something and if you make a mistake, that's just a mistake, you know?

Delena 30:17


Meliza Manalo 30:17

Yeah. Plus it's hard to not to offend someone. Because no matter how hard you try, someone will find something. You just have to live your life.

Delena 30:32

Yeah, it's also hard coming out of the Tumblr wars. (Laughter) I saw somebody describe it how on Tumblr, a 14-year-old would write this incredible, perfectly believable, hard feelings rant. That sounds so impressive, and it's just so completely factually wrong. So when you're not in it, how do you know?

Meliza Manalo 31:03

Yeah, that's true.

Delena 31:07

And so, I try. Like with this sage thing. People are very, very upset about sages. And I get a lot of it. Like, we used to call it smudging. But smudging is very specific to Native Americans. But everybody burns herbs in one way or another, like so many different cultures. And some people are kike don't burn Sage ever because it's appropriation but then other people are like don't burn Sage because it's endangered. And I'm like, yes. endangered got it. But I have grown up with Sage. Sage is the thing that makes me feel calm. My mother literally Pavlov's dogged us (Laughter) from bitty, bitty babies. She tells this as a story. When mom burned sage, us adult kids all sit down and shut up and calm down. (Laughter)

Mia Russell 32:05


Delena 32:07

So what I try to do is just be very respectful about how I acquire my sage. Like I've been trying for two years now to grow it and I just can't get it to go.

Mia Russell 32:16

Oh really?

Delena 32:17

Yeah, it's really finicky about getting started. Some people are like, "Just throw it in the ground. It'll grow." And then some people are like, "You have to scratch it with sandpaper and wrap it in a put in a paper towel and then put it in the fridge for eight weeks. And then you have to check it every day, because once it sprouts, you have to put it in the ground really quick or it'll die." (Laughter)

Mia Russell 32:40


Delena 32:41

Yeah, and I'm like, which one is right? What do I do? I've tried like four different ones. And then I've gotten a seedling twice. And then I've killed it because I forgot to water it. Because it was a seedling and it needed water every four and a half hours.

Mia Russell 32:54

That's funny. But my dad's house has Sage like everywhere. I swear.

Delena 33:01

This is white Sage specifically.

Mia Russell 33:03

Oh, okay.

Delena 33:05

And so what I do now is I have a grower in Stockton that my mother found. And they just have the backyard farm that's just got tons and tons and tons of sage. And they have the website. That's the same website they've had since 1993 (Laughter). And it has like two shop products on it. And you can buy either some bundles of sage or you can buy some loose sage. And it's just them in their garden going around and trimming and putting it.

Mia Russell 33:33

That's cute though.

Meliza Manalo 33:36

Yeah. I like that.

Delena 33:37

I have, you know, those giant pretzel buckets that they sell at Walmart?

Mia Russell 33:44


Delena 33:44

I have one of those full of sage. I have enough sage for like the next 10 years. (Laughter)

Meliza Manalo 33:50

That's good. So how do you feel about people like... Okay, so recently, I was listening to you this other podcast, and this one chick thinks that her house is haunted. And so someone told her to burn sage and go around the house?

Delena 34:09


Meliza Manalo 34:10

Does that make you angry? Or like...

Delena 34:13

No, I would offer to do it for her. That's one of the ones where you get into saging versus smudging. Smudging is a very ritualistic Native American thing and they don't always use white sage. They use special herbs. Some tribes only use white Sage some tribes never ever use white sage and that sort of thing. So you can burn a lot of different herbs. And I heard someone call it Saining, which is I think Irish. Scottish. It's Scottish.

Meliza Manalo 34:52


Delena 34:52

Yes, S-A-I-N-I-N-G. Saining.

Meliza Manalo 34:55


Delena 34:56

I don't know anything about saining. But I know that someone was like, "Hey, use this word instead of smudging." I call it saging because we pretty much exclusively use sage in my house. And you get a bundle or you get a shell, a frying pan, something that's not going to catch on fire. And some people like to use the really big abalone shells, and you put sand in it. And then you burn the sage and you just sort of take your shell around with you to catch all of the ashes and the sparky bits. What's that called? The parts that are on fire that are falling off of the burning thing.

Meliza Manalo 35:45

The charcoal? Not the charcoal.

Delena 35:48

I don't know. But the little burning parts. So you don't burn your carpet, you catch it. And I go counterclockwise. And I can explain that more later. Some people like to go clockwise. And you just open all your windows, open all your doors, anything that has like a secret cubby, like a closet that's got a corner that's got a bunch of stuff in it, you just want to take the stage stick around and just wish it out and direct all the sage in And you're cleansing is what you're doing. And any stagnant energy or negative energy that's in the house, be it a spirit or just the fact that people live there. You're cleaning. And that sort of cleans it out. Some people really go the full Romani people and go full character. And that's kind of offensive. But I don't have a problem with someone who's like, "Hey, can you clean my house or teach me how to clean my house?"

Meliza Manalo 36:58

So like, non-witch people. Like it's totally cool to use it if you're doing it properly?

Delena 37:04

Yeah, you just want to make sure that they know why they're doing it and what the intention of the action is. And that they don't burn their house down. Or set off their smoke detector. (Laughter)

Meliza Manalo 37:16

That'd be good.

Delena 37:18

Yeah, that kind of thing.

Meliza Manalo 37:19

Okay. Cool. I wasn't sure like because I was like I wonder if that's offensive. Because they don't actually practice it. It's just that a lot of weird things were happening in their house and they I wanted to clean it.

Delena 37:36

Yeah, some people will say no to that because of the Native American appropriation thing. And calling it smudging and pretending you're Native American, like putting special headdresses on or something like that. That's super offensive. But there's cultures all over the world that burns smoke to cleanse themselves. If you're not comfortable using white sage, you could use rosemary, you could use sage brush, you could use regular or you could use table sage. I have pineapple sage right now that I did get to grow, that I'm trying to dry and see how that goes.

Mia Russell 38:21

I've heard that burning bay leaves actually has some sort of effect on people that makes them calm and sleepy.

Delena 38:31

Yes, it's a very similar sort of reaction to sage. I think bay leaf is in the med family. And so it's gonna smell really clean. And well, it'll smell clean to me because I smoke my house out once a month. Yeah, people burn bay leaves, people burn Juniper brush.

Mia Russell 38:57

Or rose petals? Do you ever use what it's a called, Florida Water or something like that?

Delena 39:06

Yes. My mom makes that. I don't use it. I'm really bad about cleaning my house with anything but sage. There's Florida Water which I think you just sort of... you know, how Catholics walk around with the little stick and shoot the water everywhere?

Mia Russell 39:27

A stick with the ball on it?

Delena 39:29

Yeah. I don't know what it is called.

Mia Russell 39:31

The big silver thing that they...

Meliza Manalo 39:33

Ummm... What is it called? I haven't stepped into a Catholic Church in a really long time.

Mia Russell 39:38

Same. (Laughter)

Delena 39:42

Holy Water sprinkler. What's it called? Oh, it's just the holy water pot. Aspergillum or an Aspirgill. Yeah, that's the one with the ball on the end.

Mia Russell 39:54

Okay. That's holy water, right?

Meliza Manalo 39:59

Isn't the ball the smoke?

Delena 40:01

No, that's a sensor. That's different. That's like a little bowl that has a lid on it. And then they've got resin burning in there. It's very similar to saging and that it's usually frankincense and myrrh. I love how I'm talking like I'm Catholic, but my father was raised Catholics. My stepdad. So I'm not ignorant.

Mia Russell 40:27

Yeah. Both Meliza and I were raised in religious families.

Meliza Manalo 40:31


Delena 40:34

My mom was practicing paganism by the 80s. And I was born in 1992. And then when she married my dad in 97, I don't know if he had already converted. I think he did. I think he had already converted when they met. But he's also pagan. And they're the priests and priestess of our coven.

Mia Russell 40:57

Oh, wow.

Meliza Manalo 41:01

Do you love the equivalent of the pastor's child?

Delena 41:04

I'm like, pagan royal. (Laughter) I've almost written so many books and run so many Fayres. I do say that sarcastically and mean it sarcastically but I'm not like completely wrong. Like my mom's kind of a big deal.

Mia Russell 41:22

Yeah. She runs that... What did you call it? The Fairy festival?

Delena 41:28

It was the fairy festival. It is now PanGaia. Because the people who ran the fairy festival before were not very popular. Some of them were fine. But among the board, it didn't turn out very good.

Mia Russell 41:46

Okay, so they still run it?

Delena 41:48

Yes. Yeah, they're still on the board. They didn't do last year. They're not doing this year. I think they're trying to do something in September, but they have to have the meeting to decide that. And they haven't yet.

Mia Russell 41:59

That's pretty cool, though.

Delena 42:00

Yeah. And so, they run that festival. And then there's a second festival called Pagan Pride. That is a separate board. And Pagan Pride is based a lot about learning. And PanGaia has learning but a lot of it is just the chance to hang out with other pagans and buy cool sh*t and I have all kinds of vendors.

Mia Russell 42:24

I remember when I went there was a couple of performances, and there's booths.

Delena 42:32

We have amp guard comes out and they teach people how to fight with amp guard rules. They're the guys that have the foam swords and the historical shields and costume and stuff. And it's like...

Mia Russell 42:45

Like the historical LARPing?

Delena 42:48

Yeah, without the full on... I'm not in it so maybe I'm wrong. But it's less LARPing and more like how to accurately beat the sh*t out of each other. Like they might go full LARP. But I get the impression that it's more, 'This is how to fight someone correctly'. And now it's 'How to fight somebody and not injure them'. (Laughter) But it's a little bit 'How to fight somebody and injure'.

Meliza Manalo 43:22

So the non pagan people can go to these events?

Delena 43:25

Yes, yeah. They're usually at the VFW Hall at Fair Oaks. But not all the time. But it's public property. So we can't have the private events there. They're usually public events.

Mia Russell 43:43

Meliza, that's across the street from where I used to live.

Meliza Manalo 43:46

Yeah, I think I went to... It was a fairy festival at the time.

Delena 43:51

We might have met.

Mia Russell 43:52


Meliza Manalo 43:53

How funny.

Delena 43:54

Yeah, we might have met.

Meliza Manalo 43:55

Small world.

Mia Russell 43:57

Thinking about it, you guys actually might have been at the same party at my house once upon a time.

Delena 44:02

Oh, yeah.

Meliza Manalo 44:03

Did I go with you to the Fairy festival?

Mia Russell 44:06

I think you did, because my art was there. So yeah, we probably have met.

Delena 44:12

I hung all your art Mia and and then I ran the booth. Yeah, we have probably met and probably had like a 20 minute conversation and just neither of us remember.

Meliza Manalo 44:21

How funny. Oh, my God, I probably did meet you. I probably would know who you are if I saw you. Well, maybe. I don't know.

Delena 44:30

I look just like my mom. So you'd know one of us. (Laughter)

Meliza Manalo 44:37

Oh, how funny.

Delena 44:38

But yeah, they have a shop in Cameron Park now.

Mia Russell 44:41

Oh, really?

Meliza Manalo 44:42

How cool.

Delena 44:43

Yeah. They teach classes. They do meditations and belly dancing. And then they have like a whole store side.

Mia Russell 44:50

Oh, nice.

Meliza Manalo 44:51

That's cool.

Mia Russell 44:52

What's it called?

Delena 44:53

Crossroads. Crossroads Metaphysical. And their website is

Meliza Manalo 45:06

I want to go now.

Mia Russell 45:08

We should go someday, Meliza.

Meliza Manalo 45:10

Yeah. Let's meet Delena.

Delena 45:15

No, I won't be there. I live in.... Not the butthole. Like the armpit of Sacramento. (Laughter) Yeah, I'm in Sacramento. I moved out of my parents’ house in 2011. So, I'm down here and they're up there.

Mia Russell 45:35

That's nice.

Delena 45:37

So, I don't go very much especially after COVID.

Meliza Manalo 45:41

I wasn't sure if you're in this area. Because you guys met in college, right?

Delena 45:47


Mia Russell 45:47

Community college.

Meliza Manalo 45:49

Oh Community College.

Delena 45:52

Yeah. Well, you went to special college. I stopped.

Mia Russell 45:54

Yeah, I stopped going to college too.

Meliza Manalo 45:58

I thought you met at...

Mia Russell 46:00

Santa Cruz.

Meliza Manalo 46:01

Yeah, Santa Cruz.

Delena 46:02

Oh, yeah. No, I met around here.

Meliza Manalo 46:08

Well, I'm in Sacramento also.

Delena 46:10

I would get into like, oh, yeah? What part? But you’re recording so...

Meliza Manalo 46:18

We'll talk about it after the show (Laughter). Well, I did have another question. So we were talking about the whole cleansing and stuff and how that one chick wanted to cleanse her house of spirits and stuff. So, in your coven? Is that right word? Coven?

Delena 46:38

Um, I don't really have a coven anymore. But it would be called a coven.

Continue to Part 2 to read the rest...

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